PMDG Boeing 717

[SGCSam 0]

And this is relevant to PMDG level of awesomeness... how?

 

Lot's of people can make pretty renders. Not so much pretty models that behave well in the sim. Even less people can then take those and bolt on amazing systems and dynamics.

No, it's relevant to the topic. We're discussing a 717, so I posted a link to a 717. This topic isn't about discussing how awesome PMDG are. Yes, people can make pretty renders, however, with Milviz and Jon5700 on board, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that this project is one to look out for.

[Fabo 213]

 

 

however, with Milviz and Jon5700 on board, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that this project is one to look out for.

 

Now that is significant news. I might just be adding this addon to my radar then.

[DeltaMD11 12]

And this is relevant to PMDG level of awesomeness... how?

 

Lot's of people can make pretty renders. Not so much pretty models that behave well in the sim. Even less people can then take those and bolt on amazing systems and dyn

Btw this TFDi project is legitimate and has a ton of potential. i wouldn't judge it so fast. 

[kristolz 26]

No, it's relevant to the topic. We're discussing a 717, so I posted a link to a 717. This topic isn't about discussing how awesome PMDG are. Yes, people can make pretty renders, however, with Milviz and Jon5700 on board, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that this project is one to look out for.

out of curiousity - is there anyone who can confirm the Milviz involvment in the TFDi 717 ? If it´s true, I have no doubt it will be awesome, and not three years away from completion ;)

[cva1077 68]

 

 

is there anyone who can confirm the Milviz involvment in the TFDi 717 ?

Check these two links

http://forums.tfdidesign.com/index.php?/topic/287-virtual-cockpit-previews-and-updated-development-roadmap/

http://www.airdailyx.net/adx-exclusive-interview-with-milviz/

[Werner747 107]

Interesting topic...

 

I think when we are talking market research it really does amount to what do you see when you are at the local airport.   Let's stop and think about this for a moment...

 

A huge number of 737's and 747's grace the skies.   The 747 has faded a bit since the fuel price spiked so much, causing them to be sold of or retired.   Fact is - the 747 is a legend in air transport, establishing it's dominance for almost 40 years.   If one looks as the 737, it still forms the backbone of many airlines worldwide.   IIRC, one of these 737's take off once every 6 seconds somewhere in the world.  

 

With Boeing having introduced the NG into the mix, the 737 still has a long walk ahead of it, regardless of the MAX and whether that is successful or not.   Just look at the 777 for instance - a project of the 90's it is extremely popular with airlines and passengers around the world, another one of Boeing's market champions.

 

Now many would say that this is true, but what about Airbus then?   Well let us run some comparison figures between Airbus' A340-600, which was touted to the world as a 747 replacement, and the 747-400 itself.

 

In 2009 already, the -400 in the different variations, that is F, M, D, ER, ERF and standard passenger versions, had 698 delivered.   That does not even include the older classics, some of which STILL fly and is being seen around the world at major airports.

 

Now look at the figure comparison of the A346.  True it beats the venerable old -400 for range and payload, but it cannot be as easily configured for high density seating or into a freighter as the old Queen can.   There are also SIGNIFICANTLY less A346's flying than 744's.   Now it is true that this because it has not been in production for so long as the 747 in it's different variations have been, but bottom line is that if it is high density seating on long haul routes that you are after that you can be fairly certain of keeping full, the 744 still helps your bottom line.  

 

Add to this the fact that the entrenched support systems for the 747 has been around, honed and perfected for about 40 years, and you can see why, apart from the fuel prices, the 747 remains a favourite.   BA for example made a comment that the aircraft is trusted and liked by most of their customers.  

 

What about the 737?   A total of 7 865 aircraft has been delivered with another 3 680 orders still needing to fulfilled, and this was in December 2013. 

 

Now look at the 777 - At the end of December 2013 Boeing completed 1 164 orders with another 380 outstanding.  

 

It is also true that the Airbus is popular with airlines to and that in some instances their production rates are close to the Boeing figures, but this will involve going into the old "why does PMDG not do an Airbus" debate, which is not the point of the post.

 

Now look at the MD-11s figures:  from 1990 to 2001 a total of 200 aircraft were delivered.   I have never seen an MD-11 in my life at a real airport, and before PMDG designed and released this beast, I did not know it existed!   True I love to fly it now, but fact is it just isn't visible at airports around the globe.   The J-41 was very much a pet project for the developers is my guess.   So to will be the DC-6.   Just a nice change.   I don't own the J-41.   I would love the DC-6 though.   See where this going?

 

The 748 is a good option for PMDG because of the legacy of the 747 - everyone recognises it, it is one of the coolest looking symbols of air transport in the history of aviation!   Since I can remember, which is about 3-4 years old, when we would fly, I would walk out onto the tarmac approaching a 737 (mostly -200) and would say to my dad "Whoa dad, that is a huge aircraft!", referring the 747 (-200 at that stage) parked not too far away from it.   Remaking the 747 was some of the best news that PMDG could have given me!

 

I still fly the old Queen, but it certainly can use an overhaul!   I am fairly certain that most existing 744 customers will re-purchase the 744 and the -8i expansion when that is released - I know I will!    So to with any remake of the 737.   I have already said in a different thread that the MAX is not my favourite - I don't like the new cockpit design that much.   BUT - it is still a 737 and is going to be popular with airlines world wide (I am taking a guess here) and with simmers to, and even though I am not a big fan of the new cockpit design, I will still buy and fly it.   Why?   Because it's a 737 baby!!!   And that is what it all boils down to.

 

A 717 - no thank you, the 737 fills that role for me.   Doesn't mean that I will NEVER buy or fly one if it's any good, but it is not a product that I would love to have in my collection.   The 737, 747 and 777 - oh yes!!!

 

So as far as classics are concerned therefore, give me a 747 or a good 737 or something like the 707 for instance.   

 

Kind regards 

[kevin911010 0]

 

 

I still fly the old Queen, but it certainly can use an overhaul! I am fairly certain that most existing 744 customers will re-purchase the 744 and the -8i expansion when that is released - I know I will! So to with any remake of the 737.

 

I understand your logic here and you have your point - Many simmers like to fly the route they will take / have taken in the real world - using the exactly same route, same weather, same plane. The problem here is - those planes have been done and redone many times in the sim world. Think pop songs - many singers have sung songs like "My Heart Will Go On", "You Raised Me Up", "You Light Up My Life" etc. Many instrumental versions - orchestra, piano, saxophone you name it, chances are you'll find a recording of it. If a new singer is going to re-sing those songs in her next album, sure they are nice melodies but 'classic' in the sense that they're getting old.

 

The quality and attention to detail brought by PMDG is undoubtedly unsurpassed - the first time I sat in the real 737 simulator (the ones certified for training) I knew almost every switch and indication light in the cockpit. But 737 can only be as good as a 737. I'd love to see variations, the ones that I don't see everyday. Come to think of it - if every singer re-perform existing songs, how do new hit songs come out? I believe that PMDG has the ability to pull off a new plane that will soon become everyone's favorite.

[G550flyer 1,013]

Regardless of what you see at the airports, people will all ways be interested in flying an aircraft that they admire. I know a lot of  people look for different things in an aircraft but I have an opinion when it comes to simulation. In my opinion, there are two important factors.

 

1. the simulation of the aircraft's systems. What ever aircraft you desire, you want to be able to operate it as they do in the real thing. Normal procedures guide you down that road and the systems simulation supports the procedures. For example, in the G5/G550, If i fail to load a departure or have a discontinuity between the runway and the next point...the FMS will not perf and the V speeds will not post or box. This is the aircraft's way of saying it needs to know how it will transition from the runway through it's takeoff profile. A system characteristic specific to that aircraft.

 

2. aircraft behavior and performance. This will make or break a simulated aircraft. A good example is the ground spoilers on the DC10. At touch down, the spoilers go the the 2/3 position. This causes the nose to subtly pitch upward. This could lead to inadvertent tail strike with high flare attitudes. It also requires that you fly the nose down to the runway before the ground spoilers fully deploy and the reverse idle interlock releases on the number 2 engine. When heavy, you have to pull the power early and when light you have to keep it in longer when landing. performance should be as close as possible. All of these things comes together and give you the sense of flying the real aircraft. Just my opinion when it comes to simulation aircraft. Id rather a developer spend more time in this area verses eye candy and looks. When I attend quarterly refresher sims, we never get to see the exterior of the aircraft any way lol. Again, people want to see aircraft that they love. I've never flown a scare bus, and i love aircraft with the perfect mix of automation and hand flying. It's interesting watching new guys stare and wonder why the plane didn't do as expected. I to remind them to just take over manually before being violated. But, if I was to buy an airbus simulation, I want it to perform as it does in real life. I all ways reach out to developers to assist where I can when it comes to characteristics and performance.

 

I would definitely love to see a good Gulfstream.  Our Gulfstreams are nose heavy due to the entertainment equipment installations. After touch down, the nose will drop firmly towards the runway with a whack. You have to crack to reverse idle at touch down and put the yoke almost to your chest halfway through the drop in order to get a soft nose touch. The plane also weather vanes sharply into the wind requiring quick rudder inputs after touchdown. She is a true sports car, we can climb directly to FL400/410 at max takeoff weight.      

[roroma 2]

PMDG haven't done the 777-200er yet, and I think they said they're planning on it a while back. So that's what I'm thinking is around the corner.

PMDG haven't done the 777-200er yet, and I think they said they're planning on it a while back. So that's what I'm thinking is around the corner.

[Tushka 0]

LOL

 

What we're talking about is diversity. We have 777-300, we don't want another 777 variant. Simply another aircraft such as the examples I and others have made...

 

 

To be perfectly honest, most likely next PMDG will do a 767. It's good airplane, a mix between hand flying and automation. I'm classics fan myself, but automation takes your mind off since women unfortunately aren't automated in the same way :wink:

[ahuimanu 50]

LOL

 

What we're talking about is diversity. We have 777-300, we don't want another 777 variant. Simply another aircraft such as the examples I and others have made...

 

 

To be perfectly honest, most likely next PMDG will do a 767. It's good airplane, a mix between hand flying and automation. I'm classics fan myself, but automation takes your mind off since women unfortunately aren't automated in the same way :wink:

I'll whistle "dixie" for 12 hours straight if PMDG do a 757/767 combo.