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Guest tumezz

"Flight sims are only for those who don't have the guts to fly"

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What do I tell the guy at work that has a pilot's license that insults me and says "flight simulators are only for those people that don't have the guts too really fly"?I told him I can do much more then just putter around the local airport and stop some where for lunch. I can fly almost any plane I want and in any condition I want. I have no restrictions on where I can fly and I can do it any time I want. No resevations and no fees. I know flightsim doesn't compare much to the real thing, but it still gives me alot hours of enjoyment. I don't know if he would ever understand how. Any more thoughts?

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Personally, I'd tell him to shut up, go enjoy his hobby and let you enjoy yours...

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Guts, no. I have the guts. I just don't have the dough. Real flying is AWESOME, but for my $50 I can buy a 1) 6-pack, 2) Whopper w/ Cheese, 3) New FSD-Int. plane (shameless plug), 4) bag of chips, and go flying for hours to any airport in the world. You buddy may have the guts to fly a real plane, but you can safely get loaded on Miller Lites all night and not have to worry about your landing since you can just hit the 'reset' key any time you want...

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>Personally, I'd tell him to shut up, go enjoy his hobby and>let you enjoy yours...

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Hi Dakota,Send him my way. ;-)1) Send him to these forums.2) Have him view the threads in the RTW Forum with the Around The World Race we just completed.3) Tell him our hobby has many, many Licensed Pilots like myself who use FS9 for Procedural practice, and emulation.4) Have him check out a setup where someone has yoke and pedals, find out what he flies, and set him up with that aircraft and have him go fly.5) As for comparing to the real thing, I believe I have read hundreds of threads where Licensed pilots do compare this to the real thing, and we have the Licenses to back up those statements as well.The Planning, Procedures, and Pilot skills that we used during the RTW Race were as real as I use in my real life flying. They had to be in order to be successful.6) Maybe consider giving him your MSFS2002 Discs, or offer to him to come over and observe a flight.IMHO, that is also a person I may not want to fly with, because they sound over confident in their own skills and may feel threatened by you being able to immerse yourself in the same procedures he may use, or not use.Lastly, all one needs to do is browse these forums to find hundreds of real life pilots who would disagree with him and take him to task at the same time.Saying it is about guts is really a mean thing to say, as I have seen quite a few here go from sim pilot to license. This Sim got them into flying and now they have realized their dream. Don't let someone steal your dreams or your fun, just try to expose it to him, and these forums are one place to start.I use FS9 to keep sharp on procedures, scans, all kinds of things. especially when the weather outside is too lousy to fly.Hope This Helps,Joseph RanosPP-ASEL(And He can look that up if he wants)JOIN The AVSIM RTW RACE FLIGHT TEAM****************Grab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

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For starters, there are quite a few "real pilots" here who use simulations for instrument practice, as well as simulated flight to un-familiar destinations for an educated look at surrounding topography & runway layout. In addition to the above, I enjoy the nostalgia of old prop airliners that you seldom see anymore. I suppose the "guy at work" isn't enlightend enough, to know of these simming advantages! This can be a great hobby, just as the commercial pilots I know, who like flying R/C or running model trains on their time off.Ladamson

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Invite him over to see what FS is all about and "then" challenge him to a few greasers. (of course dont tell him first)I work a lot of trade shows and I am quite surprised at how many real world pilots can't get thier brain and hands to coordinate when it comes to flight simulation and a fixed tube.It might be the best form of revenge. :( And you never know, he might take it up!Regards,Jim Rhoads

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>What do I tell the guy at work that has a pilot's license>that insults me and says "flight simulators are only for those>people that don't have the guts too really fly"?>>I told him I can do much more then just putter around the>local airport and stop some where for lunch. I can fly almost>any plane I want and in any condition I want. I have no>restrictions on where I can fly and I can do it any time I>want. No resevations and no fees. I know flightsim doesn't>compare much to the real thing, but it still gives me alot>hours of enjoyment. I don't know if he would ever understand>how. >>Any more thoughts?>>It's also cheaper.

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He must be a real @ss. First off.. There are many pilots here and elsewhere that do Fsimming. I for one am.I went and got my license only afer the thrill of Fsim..and now..I enjoy FSim even more.I think he is proally a lousy pilot anyway.:)

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I think your friend is confusing hobbies. Flight simming is not a replacement for real flying. It's just another way to enjoy the fantasy of flight.People are always telling me to go get my PPL. Eh, I'm not that interested in it really. Hmmm, doesn't seem so strange to me anymore.Of course, you can always have a heated monologue at him about his ancestry and body parts.Oh yeah, and a little birdy told me that real aviators don't need machines to fly!

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>What do I tell the guy at work that has a pilot's license>that insults me and says "flight simulators are only for those>people that don't have the guts to really fly"?Ad hominem attacks are flawed by their very nature. Unfortunately, because he chooses such a specious argument, he will never understand no matter what level of reason is used.It's sort of like saying, "Sports cars are only for those who don't have the guts to race formula cars." A stupid argument by a naive, probably insecure man.Dan

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Besides, comparing flight simming with real flying is a flawed comparison anyways. It's not an apples-vs-apples argument. Of course flight simming is not real flying! If it were, they wouldn't call it flight SIMMING! If your friend were to say "Flight simming is not the same because a flight simmer cannot open the window and feel the water vapor from a passing cloud", I would agree! But then the argument is null since you can go on for hours with "Flight simmers can fly a DC-3, you can't" and "well I can smell the engine when I start a real plane up", etc.Tell your friend to give it a go on a home PC Flight sim. For one, my friend private pilot (who's a Flight Simmer himself) says that a lot of the time, Flight simming is HARDER than real piloting, because there is no 'feel' for the aircraft. Another coworker of mind used to build flight sim equipment for the local FBO, back when a non-motion flight simulator was the 'new thing'. He said he watched countless 'real' pilots crash and burn on the simulator.Modern flight sims like FS9 are much more complex than 'shoot-em-ups' like Doom or Quake (not that there's anything wrong with those programs). You don't just jump in a PMDG 737 and shoot the ILS at SFO on the first try. If your pilot friend flys GA aircraft, I bet he couldn't even START the PMDG 737 from a cold, dark panel! PMDG's sales figures prove that thousands of people can though...Like Joe said, have your friend read the RTW race forum for a while. There was some awesome piloting going on during that race. I know, I was one of the pilots. Without the help of fellow Avsim.com pilots, all of whom have either 'real' or 'sim' experience, my flight legs would have been terrible. Another thing, why would someone whos' a 'pilot', someone who should be educated and dynamic, completely turn-away a huge number of folks who share the same love of flying? Who wouldn't want to increase their knowledge of flying by reading flight sim forum postings by flight simmers? My pilot friend flys PRECISELY because of his meager beginnings on Microsoft Flight Sim 5.1! I met him because a mutual friend knew both of us were 'flight simmers'!!Ok, enough, good luck!

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>Guts, no. I have the guts. I just don't have the dough. >Real flying is AWESOME, but for my $50 I can buy a 1) 6-pack,>2) Whopper w/ Cheese, 3) New FSD-Int. plane (shameless plug),>4) bag of chips, and go flying for hours to any airport in the>world. You buddy may have the guts to fly a real plane, but>you can safely get loaded on Miller Lites all night and not>have to worry about your landing since you can just hit the>'reset' key any time you want...Exactly! Uggg must . . . not . . . feel . . . envious of John Travolta and Harrison Ford.

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It doesn't need or take 'guts' to fly a real plane- in fact it needs everything else besides that- skill, delicacy of touch, awareness,knowledge, training and competency. 'Guts' implies to me ,anyway, some kind of wrassling match between him and the plane and if I were a syckiatrist I'd say 'Find yourself a job you're not frightened by'. I don't think I'd want to be flown anywhere by him anyway.

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Why even worry about what this crassly idiotic person says?It has nothing to do with 'guts'.....Computer simming basically gives most of us the chance to gain an insight into something we would normally never have the opprtunity to experience in real-life! Whether it be tooling around in a Cessna, or a 747. And how many real-world pilots get the chance to fly a Spitfire? Not many!! Yet we ALL can get a good aproximation of just that with the RealAir Spitfire.. :)I also enjoy motor-racing sims...it's very exhilerating to blast around the Silverstone circuit in a well programmed aproximation of one of the current F1 cars! This also is something that I'll never do for real...something that the vast majority will never do as the sport is the reserve of an elite few! Having said that, I have taken to the tracks in a race tuned BMW Touring Car, and a Formula Ford single-seater....WOW!!It's nothing to do with 'guts'...it's opportunity, money, age, etc....

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And if every other argument fails,tell him that there are many who do want to fly,but can't because they will never be accepted as pilot.i'm simming,because i love aircraft,and wish i could be one of the guysup front in a DC8.however,i'll never be granted a license,because of who i am,and the medication i need to take.i'm even going to loose my drivers license,or so they told me.in that respect,i find that man a sorry excuse for a man.as humans,we do not always have a choice,remember?thus i'm really happy that MS does flightsim,at least i can sometimes taste a tip of the rainbow.then again,that same dude would probably handle me as if i were a retard.oh well.tataJP.

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JPI Totally agree with you! I have a friend who broke his neck in a quad bike accident and is now confined to a wheelchair.His computer is his life and he is one of the bravest people I know.I am lucky in the fact that I can and do fly some wonderful machinery but I very much see myself as privalaged in doing so.Real world flying has always had a flying for the disabled sector and it has always crossed my mind how many in these forums do have a disability of one sort or another.As a real world commercial pilot I have always felt it was important to have a close connection between sim flying and real world flying.Now there are so many real world pilots in the forums compared to years ago that it can only be good for flightsimming and bringing ever closer reality to people who cannot fly for whatever reason.That guy who prompted the letter for this thread is right up his A**Etae carePeter

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I bet he doesn't have an ATP, because if he did, he would have received his type rating in a simulator.

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>JP>>I Totally agree with you! I have a friend who broke his neck>in a quad bike accident and is now confined to a wheelchair.>>His computer is his life and he is one of the bravest people I>know.>Well,he has my respect as well,i'm lucky,with me it's in the brain,not so much in the body,but still,it does prevent me from doing what i love.like your friend,my computer is my life as well,and i am very happy that i can also fly on Vatsim.>I am lucky in the fact that I can and do fly some wonderful>machinery but I very much see myself as privalaged in doing>so.sure,that is my definition of luck as well ;)yet i do think you have worked hard enough to get where you are today no?>Real world flying has always had a flying for the disabled>sector and it has always crossed my mind how many in these>forums do have a disability of one sort or another.i do know of one person having what i have that also frequents this forum.it made me feel a bit more comfortable knowing their are more people like me here.>As a real world commercial pilot I have always felt it was>important to have a close connection between sim flying and>real world flying.if i were a pilot,i would use the sim(like may do)to visit an unfamiliar airfield beforehand,practice holds,and whatnot,they can be very useful.>Now there are so many real world pilots in the forums compared>to years ago that it can only be good for flightsimming and>bringing ever closer reality to people who cannot fly for>whatever reason.that in itself is a testimony that a sim is only for people without guts.if real pilots do find it useful,then his remark holds no ground at all,afaic.>That guy who prompted the letter for this thread is right up>his A**E>>tae care>>Peterexactly :)cheersJP.

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Hello All, I want to interject a point here about the 'guts' comment. Your friend at work is obviously a moron with a superiority complex, and most likely thinks he is a much better pilot than he really is -- it usually works that way.Guts has absolutely NOTHING to do with it. There are many on these forums who have ppl's, and atp ratings. There are many who are former combat pilots with tons of experience and who do have the 'guts and the right stuff', however that has nothing to do with if you are a simmer or not.Sure, there are tons of wanaa-be's, but that's not a bad thing. NOT EVERYONE IN THIS WORLD CAN BE A PILOT, due to health, restrictions, finances and time. Personally, I always wanted to be a Rodeo star, (yep, thats right folks, tame that wild bronco, and I'm now in the horse business for profit and fun, but I DON'T BREAK THE YOUNG ONES MYSELF, CAUSE I'M TOO DARNED OLD! I leave that to the younger crowd and confine myself to training AFTER they have a saddle on them and have tossed a few others on the ground -- rank does have it's privileges, LOL).So, next time you see your 'friend' you tell him you know of a former combat pilot who was pretty much a S!*t Hot driver who is also a simmer -- who can no longer fly legally because of medical reasons. Who, most likely could fly the wings off anything he wanted to put in front of him, and do it without working up a sweat. Who also is very proud of being a 'simmer' and continues his love of aviation with the help of flight simulators. Oh, and as someone else mentioned, he most likely doesn't have an ATP, for if he did, he would have a whole new respect for simulators and how they can train you to keep both your aircraft and self alive.There are many simmers out there with more knowledge of aircraft, systems and flying then alot of real pilots I know . . . and that says alot for our humble group.For the most part, we're a pretty fine group of individuals and I am very proud to be a part of it.Best,Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

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>>For the most part, we're a pretty fine group of individuals>and I am very proud to be a part of it.>Totally agree!Let's feel sorry for this guy, there are so many great things in the world he loses!;( :(

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No Reason why you should have to tell him anything. The only person on this planet you should ever have to impress is the one you see in the mirror each morning. As long as you're satisfied with what you do in your spare time is all that should matter. IOW, just tell him to go blow it outta his a##. ;)

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hmmm... you could also shrug away both his taunts and your emotional reaction to them and... well... try the real thing one day?:-)

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>>>"flight simulators are only for those people that don't have the guts too really fly"Really? This guy needs to scrounge up guts to go flying?I guess he's a #### poor pilot then, I wouldn't want to go flying with him either! LOL!Thanks, I'll go flying with a pilot who's not afraid, even without guts.

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