What do I tell the guy at work that has a pilot's license that insults me and says "flight simulators are only for those people that don't have the guts too really fly"?I told him I can do much more then just putter around the local airport and stop some where for lunch. I can fly almost any plane I want and in any condition I want. I have no restrictions on where I can fly and I can do it any time I want. No resevations and no fees. I know flightsim doesn't compare much to the real thing, but it still gives me alot hours of enjoyment. I don't know if he would ever understand how. Any more thoughts?

Personally, I'd tell him to shut up, go enjoy his hobby and let you enjoy yours...

Guts, no. I have the guts. I just don't have the dough. Real flying is AWESOME, but for my $50 I can buy a 1) 6-pack, 2) Whopper w/ Cheese, 3) New FSD-Int. plane (shameless plug), 4) bag of chips, and go flying for hours to any airport in the world. You buddy may have the guts to fly a real plane, but you can safely get loaded on Miller Lites all night and not have to worry about your landing since you can just hit the 'reset' key any time you want...

>Personally, I'd tell him to shut up, go enjoy his hobby and>let you enjoy yours...

Hi Dakota,Send him my way. ;-)1) Send him to these forums.2) Have him view the threads in the RTW Forum with the Around The World Race we just completed.3) Tell him our hobby has many, many Licensed Pilots like myself who use FS9 for Procedural practice, and emulation.4) Have him check out a setup where someone has yoke and pedals, find out what he flies, and set him up with that aircraft and have him go fly.5) As for comparing to the real thing, I believe I have read hundreds of threads where Licensed pilots do compare this to the real thing, and we have the Licenses to back up those statements as well.The Planning, Procedures, and Pilot skills that we used during the RTW Race were as real as I use in my real life flying. They had to be in order to be successful.6) Maybe consider giving him your MSFS2002 Discs, or offer to him to come over and observe a flight.IMHO, that is also a person I may not want to fly with, because they sound over confident in their own skills and may feel threatened by you being able to immerse yourself in the same procedures he may use, or not use.Lastly, all one needs to do is browse these forums to find hundreds of real life pilots who would disagree with him and take him to task at the same time.Saying it is about guts is really a mean thing to say, as I have seen quite a few here go from sim pilot to license. This Sim got them into flying and now they have realized their dream. Don't let someone steal your dreams or your fun, just try to expose it to him, and these forums are one place to start.I use FS9 to keep sharp on procedures, scans, all kinds of things. especially when the weather outside is too lousy to fly.Hope This Helps,Joseph RanosPP-ASEL(And He can look that up if he wants)JOIN The AVSIM RTW RACE FLIGHT TEAM****************Grab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

For starters, there are quite a few "real pilots" here who use simulations for instrument practice, as well as simulated flight to un-familiar destinations for an educated look at surrounding topography & runway layout. In addition to the above, I enjoy the nostalgia of old prop airliners that you seldom see anymore. I suppose the "guy at work" isn't enlightend enough, to know of these simming advantages! This can be a great hobby, just as the commercial pilots I know, who like flying R/C or running model trains on their time off.Ladamson

Invite him over to see what FS is all about and "then" challenge him to a few greasers. (of course dont tell him first)I work a lot of trade shows and I am quite surprised at how many real world pilots can't get thier brain and hands to coordinate when it comes to flight simulation and a fixed tube.It might be the best form of revenge. :( And you never know, he might take it up!Regards,Jim Rhoads

>What do I tell the guy at work that has a pilot's license>that insults me and says "flight simulators are only for those>people that don't have the guts too really fly"?>>I told him I can do much more then just putter around the>local airport and stop some where for lunch. I can fly almost>any plane I want and in any condition I want. I have no>restrictions on where I can fly and I can do it any time I>want. No resevations and no fees. I know flightsim doesn't>compare much to the real thing, but it still gives me alot>hours of enjoyment. I don't know if he would ever understand>how. >>Any more thoughts?>>It's also cheaper.

He must be a real @ss. First off.. There are many pilots here and elsewhere that do Fsimming. I for one am.I went and got my license only afer the thrill of Fsim..and now..I enjoy FSim even more.I think he is proally a lousy pilot anyway.:)

I think your friend is confusing hobbies. Flight simming is not a replacement for real flying. It's just another way to enjoy the fantasy of flight.People are always telling me to go get my PPL. Eh, I'm not that interested in it really. Hmmm, doesn't seem so strange to me anymore.Of course, you can always have a heated monologue at him about his ancestry and body parts.Oh yeah, and a little birdy told me that real aviators don't need machines to fly!

>What do I tell the guy at work that has a pilot's license>that insults me and says "flight simulators are only for those>people that don't have the guts to really fly"?Ad hominem attacks are flawed by their very nature. Unfortunately, because he chooses such a specious argument, he will never understand no matter what level of reason is used.It's sort of like saying, "Sports cars are only for those who don't have the guts to race formula cars." A stupid argument by a naive, probably insecure man.Dan

Besides, comparing flight simming with real flying is a flawed comparison anyways. It's not an apples-vs-apples argument. Of course flight simming is not real flying! If it were, they wouldn't call it flight SIMMING! If your friend were to say "Flight simming is not the same because a flight simmer cannot open the window and feel the water vapor from a passing cloud", I would agree! But then the argument is null since you can go on for hours with "Flight simmers can fly a DC-3, you can't" and "well I can smell the engine when I start a real plane up", etc.Tell your friend to give it a go on a home PC Flight sim. For one, my friend private pilot (who's a Flight Simmer himself) says that a lot of the time, Flight simming is HARDER than real piloting, because there is no 'feel' for the aircraft. Another coworker of mind used to build flight sim equipment for the local FBO, back when a non-motion flight simulator was the 'new thing'. He said he watched countless 'real' pilots crash and burn on the simulator.Modern flight sims like FS9 are much more complex than 'shoot-em-ups' like Doom or Quake (not that there's anything wrong with those programs). You don't just jump in a PMDG 737 and shoot the ILS at SFO on the first try. If your pilot friend flys GA aircraft, I bet he couldn't even START the PMDG 737 from a cold, dark panel! PMDG's sales figures prove that thousands of people can though...Like Joe said, have your friend read the RTW race forum for a while. There was some awesome piloting going on during that race. I know, I was one of the pilots. Without the help of fellow Avsim.com pilots, all of whom have either 'real' or 'sim' experience, my flight legs would have been terrible. Another thing, why would someone whos' a 'pilot', someone who should be educated and dynamic, completely turn-away a huge number of folks who share the same love of flying? Who wouldn't want to increase their knowledge of flying by reading flight sim forum postings by flight simmers? My pilot friend flys PRECISELY because of his meager beginnings on Microsoft Flight Sim 5.1! I met him because a mutual friend knew both of us were 'flight simmers'!!Ok, enough, good luck!

>Guts, no. I have the guts. I just don't have the dough. >Real flying is AWESOME, but for my $50 I can buy a 1) 6-pack,>2) Whopper w/ Cheese, 3) New FSD-Int. plane (shameless plug),>4) bag of chips, and go flying for hours to any airport in the>world. You buddy may have the guts to fly a real plane, but>you can safely get loaded on Miller Lites all night and not>have to worry about your landing since you can just hit the>'reset' key any time you want...Exactly! Uggg must . . . not . . . feel . . . envious of John Travolta and Harrison Ford.

It doesn't need or take 'guts' to fly a real plane- in fact it needs everything else besides that- skill, delicacy of touch, awareness,knowledge, training and competency. 'Guts' implies to me ,anyway, some kind of wrassling match between him and the plane and if I were a syckiatrist I'd say 'Find yourself a job you're not frightened by'. I don't think I'd want to be flown anywhere by him anyway.

Why even worry about what this crassly idiotic person says?It has nothing to do with 'guts'.....Computer simming basically gives most of us the chance to gain an insight into something we would normally never have the opprtunity to experience in real-life! Whether it be tooling around in a Cessna, or a 747. And how many real-world pilots get the chance to fly a Spitfire? Not many!! Yet we ALL can get a good aproximation of just that with the RealAir Spitfire.. :)I also enjoy motor-racing sims...it's very exhilerating to blast around the Silverstone circuit in a well programmed aproximation of one of the current F1 cars! This also is something that I'll never do for real...something that the vast majority will never do as the sport is the reserve of an elite few! Having said that, I have taken to the tracks in a race tuned BMW Touring Car, and a Formula Ford single-seater....WOW!!It's nothing to do with 'guts'...it's opportunity, money, age, etc....