New Pushback addon coming soon

[Hirdy2013 104]

The FS2CREW push back js going to be a welcome addition.

 

Being able to interact with the Ground Crew is what I'm looking forward to.  Just adds that extra layer of immersion.

 

Hirdy

[N77022 2]

No offense meant, but in my experience, "agree to disagree" has always been used as a deflection to avoid the use of actual knowledge or experience to properly defend a topic.  It's a way to "bow out" of a disagreement without admitting you're wrong, really.  It's similar to the "everyone is entitled to their opinion" argument:

 

You mentioned "extensive" real world experience, but fail to back that up with any actual hard data to speak to what that experience is...so I assume that means "I've sat in the back of lots of airplanes."

 

Please do grab that video.  I'm intensely interested in where your idea of realism comes from, since it seems to be so far off from my direct ramp experience.

 

Haha.  :lol: Okay Mr. Rodgers, I'm not going to argue with you. 

 

Hey you make it a great day, okay?  ^_^

[ysfsim 22]

 

 

Like the "you suck at parking" commentary that's not at all correct? Gotta love that. You park bang on the markings and it's all "that wasn't a good parking..." :rolleyes:

+1 got to love that!

 

 

Just for reference, I've I pushed back CRJ2s, CRJ7s, E145s, E170s, SF34s, A319s, and a bunch of GA/Biz stuff at various airports/gates/stands/etc. - so I'm not just questioning your timing as some random internet commenter with no clue. It's definitely not perfect on speed (we'd occasionally haul [rear] - a little faster than we should've, but whatever), but it's close enough. The disconnect could take some time as well, if the tow bar wasn't aligned nicely when ready for the disconnect.

I agree. We are taught to push back at walking speeds not just for the mechanic to keep up, but for the FA who are standing inside. Pushing back fast is not an easy thing to do especially if you are turning. Things can easily get out of hand fast and you damage the plane. At work on my FMC tugs, I push on 3rd gear which is plenty fast for say an A330-300 and bigger.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

I agree. We are taught to push back at walking speeds not just for the mechanic to keep up, but for the FA who are standing inside. Pushing back fast is not an easy thing to do especially if you are turning. Things can easily get out of hand fast and you damage the plane. At work on my FMC tugs, I push on 3rd gear which is plenty fast for say an A330-300 and bigger.

 

Exactly!  And thanks - I needed a little backup there.

 

With a tug and towbar (the small stuff I pushed could've easily gone out with Lektros), I usually just popped the brake and let the plane drag me out, initially, depending on the gate (there's a slight downhill on some of them, and the weight of the plane on the downhill was sufficient to kinda back itself out to get it rolling).  From there, it was a nice, smooth application of power, and a relatively slow turn out to line them up on the taxilane.  After that, of course, everything has to be disconnected and backed out to go hook the next plane up.

[N77022 2]

Just wanted to add this video (not mine) to illustrate. 

 

SWA 735 out of DAL, stationary at the gate to taxiing under own power in just 2 minutes.

 

 

Too many factors to please all of the people all of the time, which is why I'm really looking forward to a customizable solution. 

[Budbud 227]

 

 

2) Custom pushback speed. GSX is agonizing to sit there for a good 10 minutes while they "push" you at a blistering 1mph, then disconnect, reverse as slow as possible, then the little guy does a dance and gets on the tug just to go back towards you to get to the gate.... what?! We're burning fuel over here!

 

Hi,

 

Out of any real life experience (I mean as pilot), I understand the point somehow. It is sometimes frustrating to wait for GSX crew to disconnect and go away on long pushbacks.

At some heavy gates, the pushback time is quite long and covers almost the whole start up / after start process and checklist, letting you just sit and waiting for the tug to leave.

The tug seems to pull out quite far of the aircraft and the crew stops in front of you to wave you even when both engines are running before getting onto the tug and leave.

AES may be less realistic (?) but it takes far less time to get free after pushback.

[g_precentralis 191]

 

 

SWA 735 out of DAL, stationary at the gate to taxiing under own power in just 2 minutes.

 

It's 2min and 20 sec  :lol: I'm going to turn chronometer next time I use GSX to compare.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Just wanted to add this video (not mine) to illustrate. 
 
SWA 735 out of DAL, stationary at the gate to taxiing under own power in just 2 minutes.
 
Too many factors to please all of the people all of the time, which is why I'm really looking forward to a customizable solution. 

 

Thanks for the evidence.  So, if you were to push from the same gate for the same angle in GSX, this would be comparably longer?  Perhaps it's just because I use GSX at FlightBeam's IAD (where I worked, as well), that I see the timings as reasonably accurate (we don't have any awkward taxi alleys like you see in the video).

 

I will say, though, that you have to go 1:1 here.  You can't use a 2:20 push that's essentially straight out of a gate with no turn against a GSX push that involves a 90 turn to place someone on the centerline of a taxilane.  It was a lot easier for us to dump out a ton of CRJ2s, CRJ7s, E145s and SF34s because they were all straight out pushes (with a 30 degree turn *max* to get off of the gate).  Over on the B/C/D gates, we were given directional pushes.  That takes a decent amount of time (and space).

[ysfsim 22]

I don't deal with the regionals so I have no say there. However there are a few factors that delay the ground crew from disconnect. Things such as the final angle the tow bar is to the tug can jam the " tow pin" and require some time. Also the tow bar users is a factor. Not all stations use the small quick release tow bar for a 737. We have a lot of pump action tow bars for our 737 / a320. Thus the disconnect time is about the same as a widebody.

Also another factor is visibility. As SAS13 can tell you, you can't really see straight behind you when pushing small aircraft. The same applies to a 737. Unless its a straight push, you have to take your time.

[catchman 13]

If it works with GA, I hope it takes a loooong time for certain aircraft.

 

Anyone who has ever pushed a Cirrus back into a crowded hanger using a tractor + bar knows just how annoying that castering nose wheel can be! 

[tf51d 284]

Thanks for the evidence. So, if you were to push from the same gate for the same angle in GSX, this would be comparably longer? Perhaps it's just because I use GSX at FlightBeam's IAD (where I worked, as well), that I see the timings as reasonably accurate (we don't have any awkward taxi alleys like you see in the video).

 

Actually I tested this last night at Hobby (Which is the example Airport  Kevin originally gave) against this video. which is a Southwest 735 pushback from gate 51 KHOU against the GSX pushback at the same gate with the NGX. Actual pushback time in the video was 1:20 GSX was 2:20, GSX though appeared to pushback further then the 735. Time to taxi for the 735 was 3:20 while again the GSX was 4:17. A little less then a minute difference. Note the 735 judging by sound appeared to start engines during pushback, so I did the same with the NGX. In the US most airlines that I've seen don't start engines til after push to save fuel, but I guess Southwest, being more time conscience does.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhSTn81qPJ0

 

Tom Cain

[Johannvr 3]

I thought I was the only one a bit disappointed in GSX's pushback. For me the pushback itself and the time it takes is fine and seems realistic enough. It's the time after the "set parking brake", you have sit and wait for the wing walker's "dance", who then climbs onto the towtruck which then sometimes cannot make up it's mind where to go and get out of the way, that's frustrating. Until now I have taxied over many of GSX's  towtrucks taking to long to get out of the way, screaming "set parking brakes immediately!" behind me.  :P  FS2Crew's announcement is thus good news to me.

[MarkW 1,490]

I have GSX and hardly ever use it.  The pushback is OK but opening and closing the doors drives me nuts.  If that were automatic then no problem but I feel like I am constantly interrupted from my work to open or close a door.  I end up just pushing back manually with keys programmed into my joystick and using the numbers 1 and 2 for the turn.  Would be nice to have stand alone interaction with the ground crew.

[Boeing or not going 578]

I always use AES for pushback when available and GSX for the loading trucks. Since this addon does nothing for the loading animations, and I have spent so much on AES credits, I wont be purchasing. It looks interesting though, and if they added a realistic cargo and passenger loading and it worked with AES jetways I would buy.

 

I dislike GSX it is slow, the guy walks too slow and takes too long to unhook and leave, plus the rudder pedals shaking during pushback looks bad. AES is great for pushback but you can't set it so a big truck always pushes you back. It looks bad when a small little tug on a lawnmower is pushing back my 777!

[MrPlaneDriver 41]

I found myself cancelling the pushback animation several times just because I've finished all my after start procedures long ago and the guy just hasn't gotten out of my way yet. He gives you the sign, but you can't move because he's still in the way.

 

I also find the pushback itself realistic regarding the speed at which GSX pushes the airplane, but the time between "set the parking brakes" and the marshaller actually letting you go through takes too long. What I've witnessed at airports is that after the pushback is done, the marshaller disconnects the tug, which promptly backs off and heads back to its position at the gate. Meanwhile, the marshaller finishes disconnecting all the stuff and then walks to the side of the airplane instead of sitting in front of it, like GSX does. I don't understand why they coded the software the way they did, with the truck sitting in front of the plane waiting to give the marshaller a ride back to the gate.