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Guest MattNW

My view on the LDS767 (yes, I know enough of the 767 already!!!)

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So, I have had this plane since Sunday, my steam powered modem took 12 hours to DL it, I installed it straight away, and took my first flight.At first I was not that impressed, and it seem that is was not up to the standard set by PMDG 737NG, I took my first flight and was immediately struck by 2 "bugs", firstly, I couldnt get the ILS to tune, it turns out I was tuning the wrong radio, RTFM, secondly I was having VNAV issues, again, it was down to me and I should RTFM :-lol.I made the mistake of thinking that because I could fly the 737, PSS A320 and SSW A310 I would be able to fly this one without problem, certainly not the case.So here I am 4 days into the 767, and I think its great, really, really good, and to be honest can't find any real "bugs", sure it has a couple of issues, like my FPS drop by 50% when on the depp/arv page, but apart from that its pretty solid.I also like the way alot of options can be set to your own preference vis the Level D menu "in sim", and I think the ground and cabin calls add a lot the the experiance, so to the way you can have the FO control the flaps and gear operation.The flight dynamics are pretty special too, and it really feels right, it feels big and heavy, but also quite manuveurable, and it is totally fesablie to hand fly it the entire time just using the FD to follow the planned path.The Navdata base is a little bit of a pain for me, there are quite large holes in the SID/STAR database, and the way these can be added to by the user is not great either, I would like to see an "offline" SID/STAR programmer so you dont have to be in FS to make them, I would also like to see a way for procedures to be added singulary in an easier way.That said, if you are into big stuff it certainly deserves a place in the hanger, I also think the closed support forum is a good idea, that way its kept for users only, and can't get clogged up with other stuff, I also think it should stay completely closed, opening it as read only would almost defeat the object of having it closed in the first place as people who have not legitimately purchase the addon would still effectivly get support be reading the information thats available.Dan.

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Dan,good report, I think you are correct that most issues are the result of "user error"....I know that has been the case for me. The LDS team has acknowledged some bugs and are working to fix them, personally I have not experienced any with exception of sound dropping off when I click on my second monitor.Mark.

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At first i was very dissapointed with the LDS-767, the AP just went crazy no matter what i did, now after many hours of reading the LDS forums i have it working great. What did it for me was either unchecking the pause to task switch in FS9 or changing to windowed mode, whatever it was theres no probs anymore with stabtrim in cruise, only prob left is when in app mode something still is wrong here, but i know the team is working hard on that one.OHN

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Dan,I'm gonna step on a ledge here and say that it is obvious, (espicially after talking with you at length so many times), that you know the old PIC and this aircraft pretty darn well.You might want to think about doing a tutitorial flight, from startup to programing the FMC, the whole bit for those of us who just don't quite get FMC'sI know it sounds rather silly, that an experienced pilot like myself doesn't get it, but hey, I'm old school. Or anyone else for that matter . . . this is a great package and it would be a shame not to be able to utilitize it properly -- and I'm sure there are a bunch of guys just waiting in the wings who feel the same way.Best,Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

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The 767 looks like such a neat package but every time I get ready to purchase I keep reading something about a problem someone's encountered and I can't read the official Level D support forums to find out what's going on. Drives me nuts (a short trip as it is). :(I'd rather wait and purchase a mature product that has been worked through the wringers so to speak, rather than the intial release. I guess I'm simply too much of a a perfectionist. Oh well, too late to change now. I'll keep watching Dr. Phil and see if he can vacariously straighten out my insecurities, haha. The Lvl D 767 went through such a long beta that I was convinced it would never require a patch, but I guess that's being unrealistic on my part when one considers the complexity involved. Flight One has a really good return policy so I'm not worried about their integrity one iota, it's just that I get super-frustrated when something doesn't work exactly like it's supposed to. Comes from working too much ATC in the real-world (that other place I go to every so often) :)

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Hi Clay,Funnily enough, I have never used the old PIC plane, but I suppose I am fairly well versed in the procedures learnt from the PMDG, PSS and SSW planes, as although not entirely the same you can follow the same "flows".I am sure I could write a small tutorial from startup to shutdown, I ofcourse couldnt guarentee that it would be in anyway reallife procedures, but it would certainly work "in sim".If there is enough demand, I could quite easily put pen to paper.Dan.

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I agree with you on your points about the forums, and the delayed purchase.There is a lot to be said for not believing the hype and waiting to buy a product.Titles published by Flight1 can be very confusing, IMHO.How one ever figures out where to get support from is beyond me.When you go to the Flight1 Forums, they have products supported there, and then you see posts like, "Go here for xyz support"Then before you purchase, you like to see what concerns people have.So someone asks at Avsim, and the responses are, go to the xyz forum, except that forum is closed for reading except to paid customers apparently. That is wrong, IMHO, and sends up red flags about me wanting to buy anything from them.To me, that seems like they have something to hide, and that sends up red flags, and that means no purchases from me, and maybe others feel the same way.It's getting to the point that people that post about concerns get battered in the forums for not posting at their support site.And I think that is messed up. I don't desire to go register at umpteen different forums every time I have a question.If that is the case, then the Avsims, and other similar multi sites will have nothing but the developers beta testers and supporters telling members here to go to xyz forums to get their questions answered instead of helping them. (and look at the sigs of those who tell them to ask somewhere else, seems like a conflict to me)And companies like that, I don't purchase from.Thanks for putting into words what I have been feeling about this the last couple of days.One more thing, every time I see someone telling someone else to go to xyz'z support forums for help, the next time I see some "bloviating buy this plane post", I may advise them to take their ad to xyz'z forums as well, since it can run both ways, IMHO.I like that analogy, go there for support, then they can take their disguised ads to their forums as well, IMHO. Best Regards,Joe****************Grab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

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People, please....What do you think is hidden in the protected forums?Its nothing much, its mainly stuff to do with using the plane itself such as How to use FSNavigator or FSbuild plans with the plane. Its stuff you dont need to be reading unless you own the plane.Yes their are some problems in there such as "My auto pilot wont hold Altitude" but the the post underneath it says "well have you done such and such" and the orignal poster replies with " thanks it works great now".Why should you be reading this if you dont own the plane, Im not saying its right but all this nonsense about this protected forum is pure BS at the best of times. I think its so silly, its like young children who want to play with the older children and cant so stamp their feet.Why should owners of the plane have to wade through potential customers questions. If your not sure, You can email, or post your question in the un-protected forum, and Title as a "potential Customer" question. Im sure that will get your question answered.Come on guys n Gals there are way better things that need shouting about than this, just get over it and buy the plane, or leave it and stop moaning about a protected forum for an addon you dont own.Jason

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I disagree.You said:"What do you think is hidden in the protected forums?Its nothing much, its mainly stuff to do with using the plane itself such as How to use FSNavigator or FSbuild plans with the plane.Its stuff you dont need to be reading unless you own the plane."Says You..... ;-)There are many Forum Software Programs available that allow developers to create user groups.Everyone can read, but Only certain users can post.phpBB is one of them. You can set user permissions to let them view, post etc.....I see that they are using WebWiz forums which from their product page says this:http://www.webwizguide.info/web_wiz_forums...tures.asp?mode=*************************" Unlimited member groups Powerful security options, select which member groups or individuals can view, reply, post, etc. in each forum you setup"*************************So it's not like they can't set that up.Sorry, but to me it appears they are hiding something, and it has nothing to do with potential customers posting because that can be set up by allowing access to user groups, and barring potential customers from posting.Not sure if they are using phpBB, but that is one software program that allows that distinction.And it is VERY EASY to setup, and I should know because I did it for the RTW Race we just had. :-)You Then Said:"Come on guys n Gals there are way better things that need shouting about than this, just get over it and buy the plane, or leave it and stop moaning about a protected forum for an addon you dont own."Well, thankfully opinions are still allowed, and we can still disagree with each other without telling others to get over it, as if our opinions mean nothing.Sorry, but we can disagree, and no, I don't have to get over anything, as I stick to my beliefs. :-)And if they want a protected forum on one hand, their beta testers and supporters should not be telling people that ask questions here to go somewhere else.Regards,Joe****************Grab My FREEWARE Voice recognition Profiles here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=58334]Cessna 172 Voice Profile[/a][a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004misc&DLID=60740]FSD Avanti Voice Profile[/a].You will need the main FREEWARE Flight Assistant program to use it, get it here:[a href=http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=genutils&DLID=39661]Flight Assistant 2.2[/a]

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>Come on guys n Gals there are way better things that need>shouting about than this, just get over it and buy the plane,>or leave it and stop moaning about a protected forum for an>addon you dont own.>>>JasonYeah i agree, buy it, you wont regret it. Nothing is going on in the protected forum that would make anybody not buy the plane. I like the fact that only the people who bought the plane is able to post there.And everybody can read the general forum, if the plane was a completely waste of time, im sure somebody who owned the plane would post it there.OHN

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It's a very good add-on and fun to play with. But the huge amount of over-the-top posts on level d's forum is a huge turn-off. You would think Level D had found the cure for cancer or something. I mean, please, posts like "oh my god, I got an orgasm flying this plane," and "thank you, thank you, level d, you've rescued my moribund flight-simming career," or "the best addon ever ever published" really makes you question the sanity of some folks. Is this the best add-on ever? Yeah, it is, until PMDG releases their 747-400, and then everyone is going to migrate over to the PMDG forum and say the same things: "Oh, my god, I wet my panties over this plane." Lol. ricardo

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for the RTW Race we just had. :-)>>You Then Said:>"Come on guys n Gals there are way better things that need>shouting about than this, just get over it and buy the plane,>or leave it and stop moaning about a protected forum for an>addon you dont own.">>Well, thankfully opinions are still allowed, and we can still>disagree with each other without telling others to get over>it, as if our opinions mean nothing.>Yes do get over it....No I dont think your opinions mean nothing, on the contary I think they are worthy, however misguided, as you truly beleive that something negative is being hiden from you.Jason

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>Is this the best add-on ever? Yeah, it is, until PMDG releases>their 747-400, and then everyone is going to migrate over to>the PMDG forum and say the same things: "Oh, my god, I wet my>panties over this plane." Lol. >>ricardoWell i think the LDS767 is a fantastic addonn, but the PMDG747 will be in another league i think, though i think the LDS767 is great, i dont see major advantages here. The VC is not improved over the PMDG737 and that was what i was hoping for, well unfortunately not. Its still great no doubt about that. But i think its not a big progress as the pic767 was.OHN

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I don't think F1/LVL-D is hiding things in the protected forum at all - it's mostly things about flying the plane, making SID/STARS etc. The only serious problems that people are having with the AP etc seem to be isolated to specific systems and configurations and the team is already working on fixes. It's the best modern airliner for FS2004 along with the PMDG 737NG, and I say that with confidence as a PMDG tester. I have had virtually no issues with the airplane myself.Flight1 has a 30 day money back guarantee as well - if you don't like it, you get a refund...

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Totally agree with you Jason. I cannot believe people need to see a discussion in a forum before they buy this product. Flight One offers a 30 day refund if not happy with the product. You can buy it, look in this "TOP SECRET" LevelD forum and find nothing but normal discussion between fellow 767 virtual pilots. If you think you were misled, simply return the product. I like the forum closed to just buyers and wish other companies such as PMDG did the same. That way I can be fairly assured I don't have a kook sending messages of problems that don't exist just to cause trouble (like putting extra workload on the LevelD staff troubleshooting things that don't exist). Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there who enjoy doing such things.I have flown the LevelD 767 on several occasions now and have never had a problem or error while flying this aircraft. The airliner flies flawlessly IMHO. Now I hear LevelD wants to patch it? Why? The sound of the wind and those engines when you let the gear down coming in for a landing is amazingly accurate. Makes you want to go grrrr!Jim

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Wow, what is the deal with the support forums?Anyway, if you like big jets with FMC's this one is for you. It does beat the PMDG 737 (no offense to the 737, but addons keep getting better and better!) I can't wait for the 747.And remember the worse thing that could happen is you lose $40. You could go out to dinner at some place and get lousy food for that. :)I had no trouble learning the 767, my first test flight ended up being a full no problems flight. However I think the PMDG 757 taught me alot about this plane, cause they say the 757 and 767 flight deck are the same or something.C'mon, take a chance in life! :)

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Well Timers, I guess we all have our own view of what's better or worse. I don't think it does beat the PMDG737. They are two different aircraft each with their own strengths and weaknesses. If you want an immersive VC experience then the PMDG737 is probably a better buy. The graphics quality is simply better. However if you want more systems simulated including F/O and cabin crew contributions then the 767 might be a better buy.Frankly, if I had to remove some payware because of disk space, it wouldn't be either of those two for sure. There was also a message from Flight1 in another thread regarding the $40. You don't even risk loosing that on the 767. They have a full money back gurantee.

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Dan and all,Well, as I mentioned in the other post, I broke down and bought the Level D. First few flights were horrid, had problem with FSUIPC, but once I deleted the .ini file for FSUIPC and let it generate a new one the trim problem was solved.After another few hits and miss's, I finally did a flight from KBOS to KROC, without the FMC, (still have to break down and learn that one), and I have to admit, it's one nice aircraft. It does what it is suppose to do, handles like a 'heavy' and has all the nice manners that I would expect from a first class FS add-on.I'm thinking once I learn the FMC, it might be really intersting to do it by the numbers, like the 767 pro's do. Of course, I'm still a dyed in the wool 'hand flyer', but I'm willing to give it the ole college try.Pleasantly surprised this evening after a good flight. Best,Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

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RicardoGreat post. I too can't bear the groupies, wetting themselves as they out-do each other with hysterical praise. And you're right about the PMDG 747. It's going to be like the Second Coming..IanReserved Englishman

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Dianne,I was reading another thread about VC gauge fluidity and read what you wrote about your expectations.. FYI the fluidity in LevelD is not that great, it is because of too many sections in the VC (stated by the developers) and that nothing can be done about it... However if you dont mind flying from the 2D panel, I would definitely recommend purchasing this product!Regards,John

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Wheres the PMDG 757 then?All the best,Dave.'Three greens and soft landings'

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>Wheres the PMDG 757 then?That was for FLY!, not for FS.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2

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"...I think they are worthy, however misguided."No sir, not misguided, just curious.btPS...I won't "get over it".

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Hi Diane,"I guess I'm simply too much of a a perfectionist. Oh well, too late to change now."I will appreciate your perfectionism if I ever fly in your airspace :)On the LDS B763, I have this product and while I've had some of the issues that others have had, I'm most happy with the product. It's no easy task to come up to speed with this bird. There's no sample flight, although it's all in the manual. If people can tolerate working with LDS to get it right, it will be a winner. I've flown several flights and have had minimal issues.Bruce.

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Just a 2 cents and probably all it's worth but my opinion is that the support forum should be at least "Read Only" if you don't own the product. Why? Because that's the first place I look when deciding to purchase an add on for MSFS. I check the support forum and see what issues are cropping up and how they are being dealt with. It's a good quick way to check out the product and make a decision on whether to spend my money on it or wait until it's working right.Don't get me wrong. I really like Flight One products. Haven't had a bad one yet but I still give the support forum a glance before purchasing.Personally I'm waiting on the Bonanza. That'll probably be my next purchase. That is if they don't surprise everyone with IWI Pt 4 first.

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