A first glimpse at Prepar3d v2.3

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

You lost me!

 

What?

 

I started downloading the video, and when I came back I saw a video about "Emerald Moving".

[Guest]

One other point. I compared panning with hat switch and trackir with the same 60fps vsync on setting. No stutters with the hat switch - stutters with trackIR.

 

There are several different causes that induce stutters ... it's not just about 60 fps for a 60Hz monitor ... if it were then those of us moving to 4K resoltuions at 120Hz or for those running 240Hz 1080p displays are going to be in a world of hurt for a long time.

 

Matching fps to monitor frequency is one cause of stutters ... but stutters can not be isolated as "hardware only" or "software only" -- it's a combination of the two that present the final results.

 

Take for example an aircraft traveling at 500Kts at 500ft AGL (228m/sec) ... in order to see stutter free performance in that scenario you need more than 60 fps ... but it's actually pretty complicated if you consider that the P3D world is 1m = 1pixel ... so at 60 fps (60Hz) you can NOT render 228m/sec - 228/60 fps = you can only render 3.8m/sec ... in order to show absolute "stutter free" fluidity in this scenario you would need at least a 240Hz display and be able to maintain 240 fps.

 

Now, if you move your viewport up to 30,000ft AGL ... you are still moving at 228m/sec but because of the change in distance between you and ground scenery you no longer have the same data/calc requirements (hence better fps at higher altitudes and less "stutters").

 

The stutters I'm more concerned about are the ones I described above (1/60th to 60/60th) where timing of frame renders is not consistent.  I'm not really concerned about stutters induced by differences in fps and display Hz ... because a solution to 500 Kts at 500 AGL stutter free is probably a decade away in terms of hardware performance.

 

But, the inconsistent frame render timings is the primary stutter issue (but not the only one) for me ... I believe LM call these "Long frames".  I've never heard that term before and it may be that "long frames" means something entirely different ... but if "long frames" does indeed mean what I think it means ... long duration of time between the rendering of one frame to the next frame... then I believe LM are on track.  I personally wouldn't have a clue on how to solve this problem but if I were to hazard a guess it would be something to do with buffers and threading.

 

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with Dave and Ed ... but the fps to Hz relationship is only PART of the stutter issue, it's not the "entire" stutter issue.

 

Clear as mud now? ;)

 

And to repeat again, this is "Early" Beta, LM are still working and will be working on P3D for some time ... this is the journey of a flight simulation product, enjoy the ride (at least there is a ride).

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

EDIT: I downloaded the video and I see stutters (copied the video to 3 different computers ... even an iMac)

[alulekk 3]

Agree w/ Rob.

Really if just this "long frames" issue can be solved I think it may take care of most issues people are having.

[Guest]

I started downloading the video, and when I came back I saw a video about "Emerald Moving".

Yea, I guess that I didn't correct that link quick enough. Sorry about that :wacko:

I corrected the link. Re the Emerald Moving Video. Please delete it :Worried:

That's supposed to be confidential :Whistle:

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

Yea, I guess that I didn't correct that link quick enough. Sorry about that :wacko:

I corrected the link. Re the Emerald Moving Video. Please delete it :Worried:

That's supposed to be confidential :Whistle:

 

:lol: OK, I'll delete it.

[n4gix 4,947]

(* Psst! Dave, the "3" in Prepar3D is silent... *)

Actually it is a play on both 3D and "nerdspeak" where the "3" represents a backwards capital E. :LMAO:

 

Personally I enjoyed your video. I think far too many are allowing themselves to be bothered way too much by this slight stuttering issue; at least so far as to forget to actually enjoy themselves.

 

I can absolutely guarantee that even if this issue is finally put to rest once and for all with 100% stutter free performance, many of these same folks would just find something else to fixate on... IMHO of course! :LMAO:

[yorgosGK 7]

The stutters didn't happen in the video but I saw a lot of shimmering and a very light vehicle without any gauges. 

 

My main concern about P3D v2.x is that up until now there hasn't really been a native HEAVY addon like a PMDG T7 was for FSX....Everyone is flying around with a default plane during these tests....In FSX I can get 70 frames with no stutters with the default plane.

 

Do these test have premature written on them even a little? 

[Guest]

(* Psst! Dave, the "3" in Prepar3D is silent... *)

Actually it is a play on both 3D and "nerdspeak" where the "3" represents a backwards capital E.

Glad you are having a laugh at my expense for a change Bill :lol:

At least it proves I am not a nerd like Rob. :lol: A race car driver Nerd Rob! A race car driver Nerd:mellow:.

 

Still find it very odd that you saw stutters in the video so I played it back again and couldn't believe my eyes

to the point I was rubbing them and checking the label on Bottle of booze I am drinking. I though somehow that

Race Car Driving Nerd got into my PC and put stutters in the video:huh:

 

Then I realized I had been experimenting with 50hz and there you go the constant stutters in the video

where due to the monitor being set to 50hz. Changed back to 60hz and the playback was again perfectly

smooth and stutter free. I looked real hard Rob and in the nearly 4 mins. I saw maybe 4 or 5 barely noticeable micro

stutters.

 

Having said that though I would never use the sim at display setting that low! I push the sliders hard to just barely maintain 30fps

and I find that even with a refresh rate of 30hz the level of fluidity is only barely acceptable. I am sympathetic with the position

that FSX is a more fluid Sim and I agree, it is, but I doubt that will be the case for very long. If V2.3 or even 2.4 supports SLI and perhaps

3 way sli and Can maintain 60FPS with the setting I currently maintain 30fps then it will leave FSX in the halfpenny place. Lets face it - FSX is never going to support SLI:lol:

 

:lol: OK, I'll delete it.

Thanks, :wink: That should save me from getting fired :Big Grin:

 

Another thing I want to demonstrate is the difference between 30fps and 60fps

Back shortly

[denali 74]

It's leetspeak, n00bz!     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leet

[Baylorguy 39]

Always appreciate the validation/testing in your posts, Rob.  Thanks for taking the time to do it!

 

-Phil

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

The stutters didn't happen in the video but I saw a lot of shimmering and a very light vehicle without any gauges. 

 

My main concern about P3D v2.x is that up until now there hasn't really been a native HEAVY addon like a PMDG T7 was for FSX....Everyone is flying around with a default plane during these tests....In FSX I can get 70 frames with no stutters with the default plane.

 

Do these test have premature written on them even a little? 

 

I am flying the CS777 with no stutters at all and that is no default aero plane  :) what I have found is you have to set frames to unlimited with heavy aircraft and I lock my frames at 38 for my light aircraft all stutter are gone but that was after figuring out a nice affinity mask not until then.

[Guest]

My main concern about P3D v2.x is that up until now there hasn't really been a native HEAVY addon like a PMDG T7 was for FSX.

 

The CS 777 is very systems heavy and there is a P3D specific version ... it does induce an FPS hit just like PMDG T7 but it flies very well and most (not all) systems that the PMDG has are in the CS 777.  Give it a buzz and see what it does for you ... I've enjoyed extremely long flight in P3DV2.2 with the CS 777 without having to sacrifice settings and no OOM issues like I had with the PMDG in FSX.

 

 

 

Do these test have premature written on them even a little? 

 

Are you referencing the V2.3 beta?  I'm not sure if "premature" can be applied if that is the context.  Part of testing with LM's listed goal of improving performance is to test that goal with what is provided. I'm focusing on performance for the most part (reporting other minor issues as they come up) as I know that's important to myself and others.  But it's good to have a wide spectrum of testing.

 

As far as my level of tolerance to stutters and frame rates ... I'm ok with 20-30 fps and a few stutters and I rarely (if ever) fly military jets low and fast.  In my testing I use that scenario simply because it will expose performance issues far far easier than flying around in a blimp (which I would be happy to do BTW).  Flying around at 40 Kts isn't going to expose much of anything ... and nothing wrong with slow flight (I enjoy slow also) but it's not stress testing.  

 

Cheers, Rob.

[vck 0]

I made a video of F-22 supersonic dash with all the scenery sliders to the max under Orbx PNW over KBFI in Seattle.  The only tweak is AM=15. May be it can help to establish a reference for all the future V2.3 performance improvement to judge from. The blurry texture and stutter is worst during replay from outside view. This kind of stutter is caused by CPU overload with low FPS probably due to excessive draw calls to load PNW texture and is different from the stutter at high FPS. I don’t really care about the stutter as long as the smooth control is still there so I keep my fingers crossed that the upcoming V2.3 will perform better under Orbx stuffs.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzUEhAnEg9w

[yorgosGK 7]

Are you referencing the V2.3 beta?  I'm not sure if "premature" can be applied if that is the context.  Part of testing with LM's listed goal of improving performance is to test that goal with what is provided. 

 

Rob of course your tests are top class and you have given everyone great information...I always greatly appreciate a beta tester's input on what they can actually make public! 

 

What I mean by premature is, take example FSX I wont do my testing with the default A321 or Cessna 172 (I may have when it first got released). I would look for a heavy addon like the PMDG T7 and go to a harsh complexed autogen filed area. A lot of the videos I see so far for P3D v2+ have been the F-22 taking off and flying runway heading with some bends (which this of course is okay for testing because up until now there hasn't really been a addon thats specifically developed for P3D v2+ thats heavy, the FSX ones just "work").

 

So like the video that Avidean took the time and effort to share with us, I doubt the smooth stutter free sim he recorded would be smooth and stutter free with the CS777 (I don't own it yet I am assuming its quite heavy based on your information you shared). Personally right now I can say I am 99% stutter free with great frame rates with the F-22 however, I didn't buy P3Dv2 for military simulation I bought it to simulate civil aviation. In addition a lot of the videos I have been seeing also have EZCA cam which of course can introduce stutters since the developer has not made a P3Dv2+ version.

 

I know that I will always get great frame rates and stutter free flight when I fly the F-22 without EZCA cam...My goal is to have a nice stutter free sim with 30~ frames with a heavy vehicle addon + scenery so incase its overcast over Manhattan one day I can still fly!  :P

 

I hope 2.3 can actually make this happen! :lol:

 

**Off topic**

I am going to invest in a CS777. Is it really truly comparable for the most part to PMDG's? Ill take your word for it!  B)

[carlito777 712]

Sorry if that might be a little off topic but: Why is it possible to run FSX in full screen mode at 30 fps with the Vsync half refresh rate set in Nvidia Inspector and it looks (almost) perfectly smooth? Is that because FSX has more consistent frame render timings so that together with the NI setting you get one frame exactly every 1/30th second and this looks smooth to the human eye? As I have already stated in other threads: What frustrates me the most is the fact that with reasonable settings my frames in Prepar3d rarely drop below 30 fps but Prepar3d is never as smooth as FSX (with the Vsync tweak in NI). Isn't it possible to restore that idea and apply it to Prepar3d? Sorry if the question sounds stupid but I'm not an expert...