All ILS/LOC are Misaligned

[michael179 0]

I checked the stock CYYZ in ADE and the ILS for 06L is miss-aligned so you will need to fix that but CYTZ is working as intended with a 3 degree offset.

 

I see, it didn't make sense to land that far off the runway. How can I fix this? I've never used 'ADE' before.

Is it the Airport Design Editor?

[Lorby_SI 2,036]

Ok thanks for the replies. I guess I will just fly manually then when about 300ft AGL for the Q400.

 

Mike

 

Hi Mike,

 

I strongly suggest taking a look at Airline2Sim's cadet trainig for the Q400. Lots to be learned there.

 

You get the actual decision height / MDA from the plates for the airport, these are not the same everywhere. At this altitude you are required to 1: see the RWY and 2: to disconnect the AP when not otherwise equipped and rated (that means: Pilot, Aircraft and Airport!). Flying a plane down to the RWY on the ILS + AP is IMHO the exception anyway. Most pilots disconnect the AP in favourable conditions on landing even if everything pertains for an autoland. AFAIK that's because flying under AP does not count as full flying hours for the pilot.

[gandy 18]

I see, it didn't make sense to land that far off the runway. How can I fix this? I've never used 'ADE' before.

Is it the Airport Design Editor?

 

Yes ADE is Airport Design Editor but you will need to install the P3D SDK as well.

 

There is two things wrong with the 06L ILS, the first is the heading, it should match the runway heading and the second is the position as its off center. I have very limited experience with ADE.

[vonmar 121]

Yes ADE is Airport Design Editor but you will need to install the P3D SDK as well.

 

There is two things wrong with the 06L ILS, the first is the heading, it should match the runway heading and the second is the position as its off center. I have very limited experience with ADE.

Paul,

 

I see no problem with CYYZ 06L ILS magnetic heading of 57 degrees.

 

What do you have for the runway heading?

 

Edit:

Also, how is it "position as its off center"?

Do you possibly have a screenshot showing this?

[Lorby_SI 2,036]

Hi Mike,

 

on another note, check out Wikipedia on "Instrument landing system". CAT's, MDA and everything else is explained there.

 

(Didn't know that even if pilot, aircraft and airport are, the airline itself may have to be rated too, to be allowed CAT III a/b)

[gandy 18]

Paul,

 

I see no problem with CYYZ 06L ILS magnetic heading of 57 degrees.

 

What do you have for the runway heading?

 

Edit:

Also, how is it "position as its off center"?

Do you possibly have a screenshot showing this?

 

This is an AFCAD issue not that noticeable in the sim but it still can cause an issue as the glide slope will be slightly out with the center line, i think its half a degree or something like that, the number is small.

 

Here is a screen grab of the 06 ILS not being lined up correctly, If you notice in the runway info it has a heading 46.4900.

 

 

Here is a screen grab from the 06L ILS properties and as you can see its heading differs from the runway and as that airport, well runway 06L  ( based on the charts ) does not use an offset ILS approach or a LDA approach both should match.

 

While the runway is the one that is out by half a degree i feel it would be better to line up the ILS to the runway as moving the runway by half a degree could mean you have to re align the taxi ways and as i have very limited skill with ADE that would be a bigger project than what my skill would allow.

[voodoo101 21]

Please don't go changing navaids in the AFCAD as these are set based on the airport. There are two problems that bug FSX which I don't know if LM changed in P3D. The first is a corrupt registry entry which causes the aircraft to fly the glidescope but be off centre from the runway, there is a tool for FSX that fixes this, also built into FS2Crew although I don't know about P3D. The other problem is with the fact that the navdata if FSX is out of date and again, I don't know if LM updated these in P3D. You have updated the navdata of the aircraft but not of the virtual flightsim world. Some aircraft override the aircraft navdata and read the FSX/P3D data, some don't including the Q400. There is a tool to do update this at www.aero.sors.fr .

 

If you don't believe on this then you can test this theory as I did. Install Airport Design Studio and load the airport afcad BGL. Then find the airport on Google maps and to a screen save. Load the screen save into ADS and overlay this on the runway, if it matches then the airport is aligned. The theory is simple, they do not move runways by a few degrees each year but the magnetic variation changes as the earth spins on it's axis. Runway numbers change because the world does not spin exact, not because the move the runways.

 

Hope this helps  

[vonmar 121]

This is an AFCAD issue not that noticeable in the sim but it still can cause an issue as the glide slope will be slightly out with the center line, i think its half a degree or something like that, the number is small.

 

Here is a screen grab of the 06 ILS not being lined up correctly, If you notice in the runway info it has a heading 46.4900.

 

 

Here is a screen grab from the 06L ILS properties and as you can see its heading differs from the runway and as that airport, well runway 06L  ( based on the charts ) does not use an offset ILS approach or a LDA approach both should match.

 

While the runway is the one that is out by half a degree i feel it would be better to line up the ILS to the runway as moving the runway by half a degree could mean you have to re align the taxi ways and as i have very limited skill with ADE that would be a bigger project than what my skill would allow.

 

The heading you are talking (46.49 in the screenshot) about is TRUE heading and it is correct.

The MAGnetic heading used on the ILS plates and the aircraft's ILS approach (LOC) 57 degrees and it is correct... (you have to apply the magnetic variation shown in your screenshot to get MAgnetic heading that pilots use on the approach).

 

If an approach has an OFFset localizer it will be noted on the approach plate (like CYTZ .. Uper left corner in small print).

[gandy 18]

It would be nice for LM to fix some of the broken parts at some airports but i dont think they have that in the list of their plans as they just provide a base simulator for us to work from and its up to us to fix afcad's ( or update them if we wish ).

 

@ Vonmar,

 

my ADE displays the runway heading and ils both in TRUE which is not really an issue as i dont have plans to fix that airport as im mainly flying in the EU, When the runway heading is set correctly to TRUE it does cause issues with the taxi ways that join the runway. Is there a way to change it to magnetic ?

 

@ Craig,

 

While what you say is true we should not mess with the nav aids in the sim unless we really know what we are doing, centering up the ILS by moving it a little should not cause any harm to any of the AIRAC databases out there as we would only move the ILS in ADE to correctly line up with the center line so a full and correct ILS approach can be made the way it should be for that airport.

[michael179 0]

I fixed the localizers at CYYZ, about 3 of them were off. Maybe even 4. I exported it using the LM SDK for P3D but now how can I use this scenery for CYYz a instead of the default? Do I just put it in the scenery folder?

Thanks! Mike

 

I noticed that at CYTZ the localizer for 33 was completely misaligned! It didn't even line up with any runways, not even close! But I left it since I don't use that airport often. LM should really work on these little bugs so we can all have a seamless flying experience.

[gandy 18]

y

 

I fixed the localizers at CYYZ, about 3 of them were off. Maybe even 4. I exported it using the LM SDK for P3D but now how can I use this scenery for CYYz a instead of the default? Do I just put it in the scenery folder?
Thanks! Mike

I noticed that at CYTZ the localizer for 33 was completely misaligned! It didn't even line up with any runways, not even close! But I left it since I don't use that airport often. LM should really work on these little bugs so we can all have a seamless flying experience.

 

you can create a new folder anywhere and just point the scenery library to it but the afcad bgl must be in a sub folder called scenery for the sim to read it.

[n4gix 4,947]

I fixed the localizers at CYYZ, about 3 of them were off. Maybe even 4. I exported it using the LM SDK for P3D but now how can I use this scenery for CYYz a instead of the default? Do I just put it in the scenery folder?.

No, it should go in the ..\Addon Scenery\Scenery folder, just as the ADE manual states.

[vonmar 121]

It would be nice for LM to fix some of the broken parts at some airports but i dont think they have that in the list of their plans as they just provide a base simulator for us to work from and its up to us to fix afcad's ( or update them if we wish ).

 

@ Vonmar,

 

my ADE displays the runway heading and ils both in TRUE which is not really an issue as i dont have plans to fix that airport as im mainly flying in the EU, When the runway heading is set correctly to TRUE it does cause issues with the taxi ways that join the runway. Is there a way to change it to magnetic ?

 

@ Craig,

 

While what you say is true we should not mess with the nav aids in the sim unless we really know what we are doing, centering up the ILS by moving it a little should not cause any harm to any of the AIRAC databases out there as we would only move the ILS in ADE to correctly line up with the center line so a full and correct ILS approach can be made the way it should be for that airport.

 

"my ADE displays the runway heading and ils both in TRUE which is not really an issue as i dont have plans to fix that airport as im mainly flying in the EU, When the runway heading is set correctly to TRUE it does cause issues with the taxi ways that join the runway. Is there a way to change it to magnetic ?"

 

Well, the issue is about the ILS approach heading (057 magnetic like on the plate) which you said was wrong.

Where is it wrong?

 

We are not talking about taxiways at CYYZ.

 

"i dont have plans to fix that airport"

 

What need to be fixed?

 

"When the runway heading is set correctly to TRUE"

Where are you doing this ... and why?

[mgh 89]

 

 

LM should really work on these little bugs so we can all have a seamless flying experience.

 

FSX navaids were a single snapshot in time and were never updated. The reason is that real-world naviads are updated  every ARINC cycle. LM are not into providing this for flight simulator enthusiasts. P3D users who need that information for serious purposes will buy it for themselves.

[vonmar 121]

Michael,

"fixed the localizers at CYYZ, about 3 of them were off. Maybe even 4. I exported it using the LM SDK for P3D but now how can I use this scenery for CYYz a instead of the default? Do I just put it in the scenery folder?"

 

Which runways or ILS's localizers and what values (from old to new) did you need to change at CYYZ ?
 

"I noticed that at CYTZ the localizer for 33 was completely misaligned! It didn't even line up with any runways, not even close!"

 

The 33 is 2780 feet long, I noticed.

 

What types of approaches are approved for this runway?

 

Do you happen to have the approach plate .. if so you could post a screeenshot?