Advice on new i7-4790K build

[skytrain30 0]

Not for me. Great cooling [that you don't actually need] but the enclosure is now dated.

 

The new Corsair cases have great features and great cooling. Multiple 140 fans at the front, duel 140 fans on top, plus rear 140. "Nobody needs more than that. Plus you get dedicated SSD mounts that look great, plenty of drive caddies, removable drive caddies, etc.

 

Corsair 760T in black would be my choice. And if you are desperate for a side fan, then corsair also do a 760 version with a side fan instead of a huge window.

 

I've already posted the links.

 

Thanks martin-w, I'll have a look at those.

 

If you don't mind, I'd like to make a suggestion for your consideration.

 

Wait.

 

In September, the Haswell -e -series boards and the i7-53XX CPU's from Intel will hit the market.  Judging by the whitepapers and datasheets I've read, as well as the info on enthusiast pages like HardOC[P], this will be the boards and CPU's we've been waiting for.

 

Your 4970K and my 3770K have a difference in power of 8-20% based on which application you are using.  The new Haswell -e's will be available with 4-, 6-, or 8-core CPU's using i7 technology and if 90% of everything I've read is true, these will represent a true quantum leap in memory bandwidth, I/O and CPU speeds.  Kind of what the 2700K and Sandy Bridge did for us several years ago. 

 

If you build your 4970K system now, you might regret it in September.  Please read here.  Personally, I'm impressed.  Our MicroCenter store has information that the 6 core 5390K will run at around 4GHz and they will have an opening price of around $269.  

 

I was going to purchase a new 4970K and a ROG Maximus VI Extreme mobo last week as an interim step while waiting for my new Haswell e board and the store sales guy, who works for commission, pleaded with me to hold off.  Said it was a complete waste of money with the new architecture so close and the pricing being about the same.

 

Just posting here for your consideration.

 

Kevin

 

Thanks, that's an interesting option which I hadn't considered. I'm just wondering a) how much difference it will actually make to me (being a relative novice in OC) and b) whether the initial cost of the new boards/CPUs will be prohibitive for my budget. I guess 4790k might do me for now (it'll already be a huge improvement over my current 2.7G machine!), and I can always upgrade in a couple of years time. It all depends how big/noticeable the differential will be in real terms....

[idahosurge 2]

Meaning there's no such thing as too much cooling? Obviously there is. Cooling should be a balance between airflow and noise. No point at all in more cooling than you need. As long as your system is stable, the components within normal spec, that's all you need. Unless of course noise for the sake of it crumbles your cookie. I have an old Lian Li case, two 140's at the top, one 120 at the front, and one 120 at the rear. Rarely do they need to ramp up to full speed, overclock is stable, system very quiet.

 

You should check out the cable management of the new Corsair cases. Yes, the HAF can be beaten for cable management.

 

 

Everyone has their opinion, but that never means your opinion is the right one and to me Martin you always come across as you think your opinions are always the correct ones and when you disagree with anyone their opinion is always the wrong one.

 

The HAF-X has excellent cable management and it is only an opinion that the new Corsair cases are better, it is not a fact.

 

I use the fan control application included in Asus AI Suite 3 and the HAF-X fans can not even be heard when they are running slow, they only run fast as the CPU temp increases.  The only time the fans run above half their rated RPM is when I am running FSX and I still can not hear the fans because the engine noise of the plane drowns out the noise of the fans.

 

A 4790K will run at 4GHz at default and 4.4GHz at turbo.  With the crap tim between the CPU die and the IHS it is even more important to get rid of the heat as quick as possible.  Having a high airflow case like the HAF-X can only help and it is certainly not going to decrease performance in anyway!

 

You said the HAF-X is dated, again that is your opinion.  Has it been around awhile, yes, but that does not mean it is dated, only that it has been out for close to four years.  I like the look of the case and I do not like the look of modern sleek cases.  This is my opinion and it is just what I like.  It does not make it right for anyone else.  As far as inside the case it is my opinion that you will not find a more functional case than the HAF-X.  You may find one that you like the way it looks better, but it will not be more functional inside.  It may be just as functional, but certainly not more.

[Kattz 132]

if that's true, they're not going to sell another I7 4770K / 4790K, unless those drop in price significantly too

They are actively ramping down their inventory to legacy support only on i7-2XXX through i7-4XXX CPU's.  This means that they will keep about 6 on hand instead of the 30 or 40 they always have.

[dazz 69]

They are actively ramping down their inventory to legacy support only on i7-2XXX through i7-4XXX CPU's.  This means that they will keep about 6 on hand instead of the 30 or 40 they always have.

 

According to this the 6 core 5820K would cost $300-350. Still a great price though

[Kattz 132]

This is current 4790K pricing where I purchase all of my hardware.  That is, except for my CSX Creations custom-painted Cooler Master Cosmos case... :wub: .  Anyway, they said that their price on the 6-core will introduce at $269....

[z06z33 763]

Yea the CPU's dont run cool for sure at full load at 4.5ghz my 4790K hit 73C at one point but averaged in the high 60's

 

 

 

EDIT. I was using the auto setting for CPU voltage which at times using when running OCCT would run the Vcore up to 1.22V so I decided to set it manually I was able to boot into windows at 1.120v but failed OCCT after 30 seconds but no bsod after a few different settings I found it was stable a 1.140v and the temps never got above 60C and averaged in the low 50's so just a heads up to all!! Fine tune your OC settings for better temps I got an average of 15c cooler by just reducing the Vcore by .060V

[martin-w 3,235]

Everyone has their opinion, but that never means your opinion is the right one

Of course it does! Actually, if an opinion happens to be an objective "fact" then it is the right opinion.

 

 

Martin you always come across as you think your opinions are always the correct ones and when you disagree with anyone their opinion is always the wrong one.

 

 

Not true at all! If it happens to be perceived as an objective fact, then yes, anyone capable of logical thinking would define their opinion as "the right one". It's then incumbent on the other party to prove that it's not an objective fact. However, if my opinion is a subjective opinion then I will be the first to make it clear that it's "my" opinion.

 

 

The HAF-X has excellent cable management and it is only an opinion that the new Corsair cases are better, it is not a fact.

 

 

Haf X is an old design. Enclosure design moves on. Simply look at the multitude of YouTube reviews and you will clearly see that many of the new cases on the block [not just Corsair] are matching, and in some cases beating the Haf X in this respect. If you bother to look at the dimensions, in terms of available space for cables behind the motherboard tray, and you bother to count the number of cable ties and other cable management features this is the inevitable conclusion. This can be objective as opposed to subjective, because the features can be noted and measurements can be taken.

 

 

I use the fan control application included in Asus AI Suite 3 and the HAF-X fans can not even be heard when they are running slow, they only run fast as the CPU temp increases.  The only time the fans run above half their rated RPM is when I am running FSX and I still can not hear the fans because the engine noise of the plane drowns out the noise of the fans.

 

 

Irrelevant to your objections. At no time did I say that the Haf X can't be configured to be quiet if the fans are turned down.

 

 

A 4790K will run at 4GHz at default and 4.4GHz at turbo.  With the crap tim between the CPU die and the IHS it is even more important to get rid of the heat as quick as possible.  Having a high airflow case like the HAF-X can only help and it is certainly not going to decrease performance in anyway!

 

 

Not true. I have a 3770K also with "crap Tim" between the IHS and CPU die. In addition my CPU is the worst case scenario in regard to this phenomenon... I do not own a Haf X, just a Lain LI. An efficient CPU cooler, and an enclosure that can ingress and egress enough air to maintain the required CPU and motherboard temperature in the normal range is all that's required. An "overkill" Haf X is not essential by any means.

 

The 4790K has the new design thermal interface material. So no, it's not the "crap TIM" you refer to.

 

My subjective opinion: Haf X cooling is over the top. Rarely required, as evidenced by the fact that very few if any that own the Haf X run the fans at max. I don't even run my outdated Lian Li enclosure fans anywhere near max, with a hefty overclock. But it's up to you, if that's the case you favor, I'm happy for you.

 

You said the HAF-X is dated, again that is your opinion.  Has it been around awhile, yes, but that does not mean it is dated,

 

If it's been around for a while then by definition it's dated. Does it have the latest features, of the latest enclosures? No! Then by definition it's dated.

 

Doers it even have filters yet? last time I checked it didn't. :rolleyes:

 

I like the look of the case and I do not like the look of modern sleek cases.  This is my opinion and it is just what I like.  It does not make it right for anyone else.

 

That's fine then, no problem. Aesthetics are subjective.

 

 You may find one that you like the way it looks better, but it will not be more functional inside.  It may be just as functional, but certainly not more.

 

You say "will not be more functional" which is a definitive statement! Now you must subject yourself to the same logic you subjected me to. You criticized me for "always believing my opinions are the right ones". You have just done the same thing!

 

Have you done the research and actually looked in detail at all of the new cases on the market. No, clearly you haven't.

 

It's human nature to extol the virtues of the choices we make, and the products we own. It's human nature to praise the outdated cooler, or the 4 year old Haf X enclosure, but we have to be sensible and accept that technology moves on.

 

I am without bias, as I don't own either the Haf X or a Corsair case. You are biased because you do own the 4 year old Haf X.

[dazz 69]

Anyway, they said that their price on the 6-core will introduce at $269....

 

Here's hoping that's true Kevin. Poor AMD, they're in for some trouble

[Kattz 132]

Here's hoping that's true Kevin. Poor AMD, they're in for some trouble

My understanding, Dazz, is that Intel was forced into this next generation of chipset and CPU because of AMD.  (Their claim, not mine)  I used to be an AMD-only user, always rooting for the underdog.  Sandy Bridge and the i7-2700K was where I made the move to Intel.  Before that, always AMD. 

 

Intel felt that because of the dismal performance returns of IB and Haswell and the corresponding chipsets (Devil's Canyon, anyone?) and the resultant black eye from the hardcore OC/gamer crowd, they had to go more than 4 cores, and the next gen had to blow away everything to date.  And I understand that Intel will take a profit loss on Haswell -e CPU's just to get their image back.

 

It should make for an interesting next 18 months, because the AMD unit allegedly waiting in the wings is every bit as sharp as Haswell -e.  We will see, my friend.

Of course it does! Actually, if an opinion happens to be an objective "fact" then it is the right opinion.

 

 

 

Not true at all! If it happens to be perceived as an objective fact, then yes, anyone capable of logical thinking would define their opinion as "the right one". It's then incumbent on the other party to prove that it's not an objective fact. However, if my opinion is a subjective opinion then I will be the first to make it clear that it's "my" opinion.

 

 

 

Haf X is an old design. Enclosure design moves on. Simply look at the multitude of YouTube reviews and you will clearly see that many of the new cases on the block [not just Corsair] are matching, and in some cases beating the Haf X in this respect. If you bother to look at the dimensions, in terms of available space for cables behind the motherboard tray, and you bother to count the number of cable ties and other cable management features this is the inevitable conclusion. This can be objective as opposed to subjective, because the features can be noted and measurements can be taken.

 

 

 

Irrelevant to your objections. At no time did I say that the Haf X can't be configured to be quiet if the fans are turned down.

 

 

 

Not true. I have a 3770K also with "crap Tim" between the IHS and CPU die. In addition my CPU is the worst case scenario in regard to this phenomenon... I do not own a Haf X, just a Lain LI. An efficient CPU cooler, and an enclosure that can ingress and egress enough air to maintain the required CPU and motherboard temperature in the normal range is all that's required. An "overkill" Haf X is not essential by any means.

 

The 4790K has the new design thermal interface material. So no, it's not the "crap TIM" you refer to.

 

My subjective opinion: Haf X cooling is over the top. Rarely required, as evidenced by the fact that very few if any that own the Haf X run the fans at max. I don't even run my outdated Lian Li enclosure fans anywhere near max, with a hefty overclock. But it's up to you, if that's the case you favor, I'm happy for you.

 

You said the HAF-X is dated, again that is your opinion.  Has it been around awhile, yes, but that does not mean it is dated,

 

If it's been around for a while then by definition it's dated. Does it have the latest features, of the latest enclosures? No! Then by definition it's dated.

 

Doers it even have filters yet? last time I checked it didn't. :rolleyes:

 

I like the look of the case and I do not like the look of modern sleek cases.  This is my opinion and it is just what I like.  It does not make it right for anyone else.

 

That's fine then, no problem. Aesthetics are subjective.

 

 You may find one that you like the way it looks better, but it will not be more functional inside.  It may be just as functional, but certainly not more.

 

You say "will not be more functional" which is a definitive statement! Now you must subject yourself to the same logic you subjected me to. You criticized me for "always believing my opinions are the right ones". You have just done the same thing!

 

Have you done the research and actually looked in detail at all of the new cases on the market. No, clearly you haven't.

 

It's human nature to extol the virtues of the choices we make, and the products we own. It's human nature to praise the outdated cooler, or the 4 year old Haf X enclosure, but we have to be sensible and accept that technology moves on.

 

I am without bias, as I don't own either the Haf X or a Corsair case. You are biased because you do own the 4 year old Haf X.

Wow...

 

Here's my case, with a Corsair H100 water cooling system for the CPU, plus 3 120mm fans in the case, not counting the 2 on the H100, and 1 80mm fan cooling my RAM and SSD's.

 

I'll admit that it's old but not dated.  To each their own!

[martin-w 3,235]

I'll admit that it's old but not dated. To each their own!

You haven't advised the OP to buy your enclosure, so not relevant.

 

 

If it's old, and doesn't posses the latest features, then by definition it's dated. If it does posses the latest features, because somehow it was "ahead of it's time" that's great.

 

But none of that matters, if it works for you, provides all the features you need, if you are happy, all is well.

 

However... when someone asks for advice in this regard, for a new build, and someone comes along and advises them to spend their money on a four year old enclosure... it makes sense to inform them that there are brand new, latest design products on the market with great new features that the 4 year old design doesn't have.

[Kattz 132]

Generally, I refrain from case advice on build questions.  People will buy what they think "looks nice" from my experience.  Although if I were buying a new case today, it would probably be a Corsair unit.

[idahosurge 2]

 

 

I am without bias, as I don't own either the Haf X or a Corsair case. You are biased because you do own the 4 year old Haf X.

 

Again we disagree, I am not biased, do I have preferences, yes I do.  I do not care what case the OP buys, he asked for opinions and I gave mine.  Just because I have a HAF-X and like it does not make me biased.  Just because something is four years old it is not dated and there are better things out there just because they are newer, have filters and have less fans.

 

As far as filters, the HAF-X does not have filters and if it did I would take them out.  I keep the inside of my case cleaned out so I do not need them, filters just clog, reduce airflow and something else to have to clean.

 

As far as research I have done, you have no idea, but you just say that I have not.  I have looked at cases I do not see anything significantly better than what  I have.  As far as the two you linked to, they do not even come with a top fan to remove heat.  All they have is fronts fans and a rear fan.  I would not buy a case without a top exhaust fan.  The slots provide for cable management if an improvement over the HAF-X certainly are not a even significant improvement.

 

I could go on, but I am not wasting anymore of my time on this discussion.

Generally, I refrain from case advice on build questions.  People will buy what they think "looks nice" from my experience.  Although if I were buying a new case today, it would probably be a Corsair unit.

 

I generally try and keep out of discussions like this anymore.  They take to much time and to many people with different opinions.  Like you said, the OP is going to buy what they want.

[Kattz 132]

Umm... you quoted me for some reason at the top of your post, but that wasn't me that said that.  Your quote at the bottom is correct.

 

As for cases, I agree with you.  My case was originally marketed in 2009 and today's cases are mostly, well, sub-par because of all of what the Brits call "fiddly bits".  My Cosmos case has huge top fans (2), PSU fan, large bottom fan that can be aimed at certain parts that need more airflow than others, a HDD rack fan, large rear fans AND grommets for external liquid cooling. Except for the rear fan, all of the other ones are hidden and you can't even hear them running.

 

And it's very stylish.

 

Of course, I added 6 blue acrylic custom hot-swap bays and the entire inside is wrinkle finish black...

 

If a case has all the features a builder needs and it's built like a tank, why buy today's product? My old Thermaltake X is a beautiful case - and very solid with lots of fans.  Seems a shame to let it sit in the corner, so it will probably become #2 on the network when I pick up my Jetmax.

 

I interrupted the discussion because there's beautifully-built cases out in the real world that have all of the features that one would need, and it doesn't have to be a "my way or the highway" approach.

[martin-w 3,235]

Again we disagree, I am not biased, do I have preferences, yes I do.  I do not care what case the OP buys, he asked for opinions and I gave mine.  Just because I have a HAF-X and like it does not make me biased.  Just because something is four years old it is not dated and there are better things out there just because they are newer, have filters and have less fans.

 

As far as filters, the HAF-X does not have filters and if it did I would take them out.  I keep the inside of my case cleaned out so I do not need them, filters just clog, reduce airflow and something else to have to clean.

 

As far as research I have done, you have no idea, but you just say that I have not.  I have looked at cases I do not see anything significantly better than what  I have.  As far as the two you linked to, they do not even come with a top fan to remove heat.  All they have is fronts fans and a rear fan.  I would not buy a case without a top exhaust fan.  The slots provide for cable management if an improvement over the HAF-X certainly are not a even significant improvement.

 

I could go on, but I am not wasting anymore of my time on this discussion.

 

 

I generally try and keep out of discussions like this anymore.  They take to much time and to many people with different opinions.  Like you said, the OP is going to buy what they want.

 

 

Again we disagree, I am not biased, do I have preferences, yes I do. 

 

​Of course you are biased. You are extolling the virtues of the Haf X... and you own one. Either consciously or sub consciously you are biased. I would be biased if I extolled the virtues of my out dated Lian Li P50. What I try to do is keep my personal choices out of it, and simply inform the OP that there are great cases out there, with the latest features. 

 

Just because something is four years old it is not dated

 

The dictionary definition is clear on this. If it is old, and not possessing features of a newer design, then it is out-dated, out of date, not modern or current. But that's perfectly fine if it works for you.

 

My Lian Li is outdated, but it works for me. But when suggesting enclosures to someone building a new PC, it's logical to suggest enclosures with the latest, useful features.

 

 

As far as the two you linked to, they do not even come with a top fan to remove heat.  All they have is fronts fans and a rear fan.

 

:lol: Of course they do! The 760T can accommodate 3 140mm fans on the top.  That's more fan surface area than your Haf X!!!! :smile:

 

The 760T can house ALL of the Corsair AIO coolers on the top or any other make you choose. The 760T can even house a 360 radiator on top plus an extra fan. Same for the 750D. So much for your research.  :smile: You haven't even bothered to look at the enclosures properly, you've just glanced at the pictures.

 

760T

 

3X140 fans on top

Up to 360 rad on top

can house all AIO coolers.

can house AIO coolers at the front

can house 2 140 fans at front

Numerous tool-less SSD mounts including behind motherboard tray

Fan controller

Huge side Window

​Cable management described in reviews as top-notch Numerous cable tie holes. Large space behind motherboard tray for cables. Numerous cable routing holes.

Bottom mounted fan mount

All hard drive cages completely removable and re-positionable.

 

Huge CPU cut-out. You can guarantee that many motherboards will not be compatible with the Haf X cut-out, as CPU's are now mounted in a different location.

 

You may not care about the features above, but the OP may well find these features very useful, and I for one will certainly point out to anyone building a new PC, that these features, that are not incorporated in the Haf X design, are available from other manufactures in regard to their latest cases.

 

It would be wrong of me to do anything else.

 

 

 

My case was originally marketed in 2009 and today's cases are mostly, well, sub-par because of all of what the Brits call "fiddly bits".

 

The features listed above aren't "fiddly bits", and most definately not "sub par". They are useful features. Precisely why Corsairs designers incorporated them.

 

Just because you aren't interested in the above features, doesn't mean the OP isn't!

 

I interrupted the discussion because there's beautifully-built cases out in the real world that have all of the features that one would need, and it doesn't have to be a "my way or the highway" approach.

 

 

 

I hope you don't mean me?

 

Not once did I say "it's my way or the highway". All I have done is point out that the cable management features of the 4 year old Haf X have now been matched and in some cases beaten. Also that there are features now available that many will find useful.

[Kattz 132]

 

 

The features listed above aren't "fiddly bits", and most definately not "sub par". They are useful features. Precisely why Corsairs designers incorporated them.



Just because you aren't interested in the above features, doesn't mean the OP isn't!

 

Martin, we are going to have to agree to disagree.  As I posted, if I bought a case now, it would probably be a Corsair.  And I can see 90% of the cases on the market at my local Micro Center, as they have about 40 on display.  Most of them suck, to put it bluntly.  They have too much open mesh, or too much plastic, or their interior design is horrible.

 

I would pick three makers, and in this order, and not everything they sell - Corsair, Cooler Master, Thermaltake.  After that, too much plastic, too many wierd shapes, poor case design.  But again, regardless of what the three of us think, mostly cases come down to personal preference and not practicalilty.  I always pick a case because I intend on seeing it for 10 years.