VoxATC and dynamic weather (FSGRW, Opus, ASN)?

[Jarkko 59]

Hello Ken,

 

This is what I had in mind in my first post. Opus and FSGRW also generate similar weather files as ASN.

[zmak 331]

Correct. There are multiple places, where VoxATC could get the weather from.

 

The most likely is the NOAA as it is the place where most of the weather engines get their METARs from. The data from NOAA is in a nicely formated xml file with the winds, temperatures and visibility in their own fields so minimal parsing required.

 

Has anyone already pitched this idea to the developer?

His email is on the website. He is active via email and approachable

[daan_vb 37]

I posted on the ASN forums after I received an email from Tegwyn regarding the weather. He told me the following:

 

"I'm afraid that AS does not set the weather in FSX far enough away from the user so that the correct weather is set at your destination when VoxATC needs it (to determine which approach to assign). VoxATC needs to start to vector you when you're about 30NM from the airport. For some reason AS does not set the weather that far away, or at least it is not available to a Sim add-on through SimConnect"

 

I got this response from one of the developers:

 

Hi Dan,

There are some things I'd like to be clarified here:

- First, I assume you use a flight plan (let the auto-load flight plan option checked and whenever you load the plan in fsx, as I think is needed when using VoxAtc, this will lead to ASN being "flight plan aware")
- Second, make sure the winds at your destination are not calm. This may confuse the atc program (I know it does for the default fsx atc). There is an option called wind-lock for this forcing 6kts winds at your departure/destination/alternate.
- ASN updates the weather of your destination when the aircraft is at least 60 nm out. You can check this by comparing the ASN atis, xgauge, etc with the fsx weather map. If the 2 of them (ASN and fsx weather map) match, then this means that ASN is working ok and the problem is how/when VoxAtc "reads" them.
- Check the prevent downloads on approach. Normally (as in real) life, after the ATIS has assigned a runway, the winds *may* change and you may end up landing in non favourable winds. Checking this option will make things more predictable (it makes sure the weather is not updated if you're within 60nm from your destination).

In any case, please report the specific case with details (flight plan, saved flight situation, date/time, details such as if e.g. the fsx weather map is updated, but VoxAtc isn't) so that we can figure out what exactly is the issue and then attempt to improve things.

Thanks,

 

The post is here:

 

http://www.hifitechinc.com/forums/showthread.php?3230-ASN-and-VoxATC

[nam1394 10]

I posted on the ASN forums after I received an email from Tegwyn regarding the weather. He told me the following:

 

"I'm afraid that AS does not set the weather in FSX far enough away from the user so that the correct weather is set at your destination when VoxATC needs it (to determine which approach to assign). VoxATC needs to start to vector you when you're about 30NM from the airport. For some reason AS does not set the weather that far away, or at least it is not available to a Sim add-on through SimConnect"

 

 

 

This isn't true. ASN and FSGRW set the destination weather at least 100nm from the airport unless you reduce it for FSGRW from the options. EFB, PFE, Fscaptain and RC can read the FSX's weather at that distance.

 

Both ASN and FSGRW download the weather for the whole world and present it in a file which other add ons like EFB and FScaptain can read. It is VOX's shortcoming.

 

As I said before, restarting VOX after the weather has been set at destination which is around 100nm from the airport will give you an accurate weather reading.

[vonmar 123]

Jarkko,

 

"The data from NOAA is in a nicely formated xml file with the winds, temperatures and visibility in their own fields so minimal parsing required."

 

Well that would be a good source then.

 

VOXatc can read the LevelD Navdata for SID/STARS which is in XML format so reading NOAA ATIS / weather (XML) should also be possible.

[vonmar 123]

Just another thought.

 

"restarting VOX" during flight is a possible work around was previously mentioned.

 

If true, then the VOXatc developer could code the VOXatc program to do the same thing "internally" when its time for STAR / arrival runway assignment and post a message to the pilot  saying that destination ATIS is now available or just say weather updated .. something like that.

[zmak 331]

great idea. I switch off vox during cruise and listen to live atc and switch back at tod

[nam1394 10]

Just another thought.

 

"restarting VOX" during flight is a possible work around was previously mentioned.

 

If true, then the VOXatc developer could code the VOXatc program to do the same thing "internally" when its time for STAR / arrival runway assignment and post a message to the pilot  saying that destination ATIS is now available or just say weather updated .. something like that.

Now, that's a great thought.

[spesimen 135]

 

If true, then the VOXatc developer could code the VOXatc program to do the same thing "internally" when its time for STAR / arrival runway assignment and post a message to the pilot  saying that destination ATIS is now available or just say weather updated .. something like that.

 

doesn't really solve the underlying issue though. in a lot of STARS in the usa the transition is more than 120nm out (the radius in asn). if you are flying high and fast you could also conceivably hit your TOD before the destination weather is accurate. so that 'reset' would be happening too early to be useful.

 

really it seems to me the best option is to just read the weather from the snapshots files instead of querying the airport. dunno how tricky that is but it's basically just parsing a text file so shouldn't be too crazy.

 

i emailed with both the asn devs and vox dev about this issue a few months ago. there are basically two assumptions being made..

 

1. asn assumes that you don't need to know your weather more than 120nm out because it's not realistic that ATIS would go that far anyway, which is technically true. however, it's not realistic that controllers at your desination wouldn't know their own weather just because you are farther than that.

 

2. vox assumes that the destination weather is always correct, which is true if you are using default weather. but of course, not true with a lot of the weather addons.

 

ultimately i hope one of them can figure out a solution, it's the most annoying thing about vox for sure. i highly encourage people to use the support form for vox, it may help encourage a solution if he's aware that A LOT of people are having this problem and using the workaround.

 

as far as the workaround goes, the 'reset around 110nm' trick works pretty well, but only if the transition is closer than that, which is common in europe but not so common in the usa. the mod transition into KSFO for example is around 140nm out, and you would get mod3 or locke3 depending on which runways are in use, right now if you reset after getting closer you've already been vectored a bit on the wrong star and then it's confused and just gives you vectors.

 

i tried forcing the issue by adding star-specific waypoints for this situation and it re-directed me back onto the correct star but then it crashed when it tried to vector me off the star when i got closer. not sure if that's a reproducible issue i haven't investigated it fully..

 

cheers!

-andy crosby

[nam1394 10]

 

really it seems to me the best option is to just read the weather from the snapshots files instead of querying the airport. dunno how tricky that is but it's basically just parsing a text file so shouldn't be too crazy.

 

 

Actually, you don't have to read the snapshot files. You can get the weather from the weather add ons interface and incase of ASN, you can get it from its own ATIS.

 

And it is true what you say about the US's STARs. I should have mentioend that.

[solvair 0]

In the fmc of fscaptain I can display anytime metar destination. I think both rc as pfe even proatcx can read metar provided by active sky, fsgrw, etc.. (I tested with the three atc addons and these two weather engines) ... I think the problem is clearly voxatc, and the solution is a new version of voxatc read the metar those weather engines, which, of course, include arrival airport

[vonmar 123]

Solvair,

 

"In the fmc of fscaptain I can display anytime metar destination. "

 

Are you sure?

 

I just looked on fscaptain internet FAQ:

Question 3.8: Why do the weather stations I inquire on say "Weather station not set in FS"?

Answer: It's most probably because you have a weather add-on such as ActiveSky. By default if you use the built-in weather, almost every weather station in the world will be set if you download "real weather". But weather add-ons just set the stations within a certain radius (usually about 60-100 miles) of the user's aircraft. Thus, if you inquire using the FCOM's weather facilities on your destination airport which is, say, 200 miles away -- it hasn't been set yet by your add-on. It will be set as you get closer. For this reason even though I have ActiveSky I usually just use the MS Real Weather download when I fly using the FCOM.

 

Sounds like the same problem we have with VOXatc to me.

*****

 

Can fscaptain program run with VOXatc already installed in fsx/p3d?

[Jarkko 59]

FSCaptain reads the arrival metar from the weather engine output file. If you try to run FSCaptain without telling it, where it can find the weather engine file, it will act just like VoxATC -> No weather at your destination.

 

As mentioned FSCaptain works around this by reading the weather outside FSX and not from FSX.

[vonmar 123]

Jarkko,

 

"As mentioned FSCaptain works around this by reading the weather outside FSX and not from FSX."

 

That is what I was looking for .. where is this information about the workaround?

 

I would have thought it would have have bee in the "answer" from fscaptain's FSQ I quoted in my last post above.

 

***

 

Can fscaptain program run with VOXatc already installed in fsx/p3d?

If so, I may try their demo.

[Jarkko 59]

Jarkko,

 

That is what I was looking for .. where is this information about the workaround?

 

***

 

Can fscaptain program run with VOXatc already installed in fsx/p3d?

If so, I may try their demo.

 

This isn't a workaround per se. It is a feature programmed into FSCaptain to help FSCaptain work with advanced weather engines.

 

FSCaptain does have a functional demo. You can do the KPDX to KRNO with all the features working.

 

Just to make sure, that I do not lead you down the wrong path, I would like to point out a few things:

 

VoxATC and FSCaptain do not have overlapping features and do not interfere or effect how they work. Even though FSCaptain is able to read the destination weather from WX engine, it will not make VoxATC aware of the destination weather.

 

So a short version:

 

 - FSCaptain has WX engine support

 - There is a functional demo for FSCaptain

 

The FSCaptain manual can be found here:

 

http://fscaptain.net/atm/index.php?&direction=0&order=nom&directory=Documents

 

It has a good chapter own weather and weather engines. Do a search for the text "weather options". You should find a screenshot of the dialog, where you can point FSCaptain to your weather engines output file.