Fuel entry

[voodoo101 21]

I wonder if somebody could shed some light as to the reason why the fuel I enter does not match the total fuel.

 

ie: my flight plan says that I need to load 64391 Kgs, so in the 777 FMC of the fuel loading page I enter 64391Kgs. Then I look at the total fuel and it read 64378Kgs, so in effect I am 13Kgs short.

 

Not a major problem, I just wondered whether this was a bug or it was designed this way.

[tcas_climb 45]

It's probably the way the thing rounds up/down the numbers, just try entering 64400, a few extra/less kg shouldn't kill you

[77west 139]

voodoo101, on 08 Jul 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

I wonder if somebody could shed some light as to the reason why the fuel I enter does not match the total fuel.

 

ie: my flight plan says that I need to load 64391 Kgs, so in the 777 FMC of the fuel loading page I enter 64391Kgs. Then I look at the total fuel and it read 64378Kgs, so in effect I am 13Kgs short.

 

Not a major problem, I just wondered whether this was a bug or it was designed this way.

 

tcas_climb, on 08 Jul 2014 - 10:53 PM, said:

It's probably the way the thing rounds up/down the numbers, just try entering 64400, a few extra/less kg shouldn't kill you

 

To put it bluntly, 1300kgs wont make much difference, never mind 13 kgs. I am pretty sure it is to do with rounding - I always round up so EG lets say PFPX says I need 28,377kg I will often round this up and enter 28.5 (tons) in the CDU. This way I have a small "fudge factor" for running the APU longer etc (especially flying on VATSIM) On a plane with an MTOW of 347 tons, even a 1 ton error is pretty insignificant. Given that they don't actually weight the PAX, I would bet most flights on a 777 leave + or - 2-5 tons either side of what the pilots have on their paperwork. A 5kg error per PAX over 300 PAX could equate to a 1.5 ton gross error either way. It wont drop out of the sky.... BUT as the aircraft gets smaller, the margin for error decreases. So on a little Cessna, a 100kg error could cause issues pretty fast.

 

I am rambling.

 

13kg does not matter = round up a bit.

 

Wes B)

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

Wondering how much fuel the APU burns, between entering the fuel figure and checking the fuel "gauge"?

 

EDIT: About 4 min to burn 13 kg of fuel - Craig is faster, I can assume?  

[77west 139]

Wondering how much fuel the APU burns, between entering the fuel figure and checking the fuel "gauge"?

 

EDIT: About 4 min to burn 13 kg of fuel - Craig is faster, I can assume?  

 Oliver, I would think the APU is shut down during refuelling? Generally on ground power..

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

Wes, I would think so, too, but that leaves us with a 'boring' explanation about rounding up 'n' down figures (and unit conversions, possibly).

 

Or maybe PMDG modelled some RW inaccurancies into the figures? We see that all the time with figures like oil quantities, hydraulic pressure, engine vibrations and stuff.

[voodoo101 21]

Thanks for the replys.

 

You could be right Oliver, I think the APU was running when the fuel was loaded, maybe that was it. Maybe it is because PMDG is a US company and works in Lbs and I am entering the figures in Kgs, that it is the way that PMDG has got the FMC to calculate the fuel, by changing it from Kg's to Lbs and back again.

 

Like I said, it's not a problem as I don't rely 100% on PFPX fuel planning, plus various things make a difference to the planned fuel and actual fuel. As was said in another thread about weather, in flight sim world people try and work to accurate figures, but in real world things are not accurate. We enter a ZFW that is bang on the money of the weight we have, however in real life people are not all the same size and we do not get weighed when we check in. In the UK we have a budget airline called Ryanair and due to the fact that you have to pay so much over if your bags are heavy, some people try and wear three or four layers of clothing. Hand luggage is also not weighed and goes by size, all this makes a difference.

 

I can live with the difference, I was just curious to see if there was an actual reason.

[77west 139]

voodoo101, on 09 Jul 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

In the UK we have a budget airline called Ryanair

Should read: 'In Europe we have a @#$% budget airline called Ryanair" - Sorry I am joking!

 

No, actually I am not. #NeverAgain.

 

But point taken - I have seen this.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

All this, and more, in the ________!

 

(Hint: fill in the blank with "tutorial," though it might also be in the intro - it's in one of 'em)

 

The tutorial notes the issue as a matter of FSX rounding not allowing them the precision people might look for.  Try it in the default Cessna using the regular FSX menus.  You'll see it there, too.

[voodoo101 21]

OK Kyle, I admit that I have not read the tutorial since I purchased the PMDG 777. Since then a lot has gone on, many re-installs. I have not checked the standard FSX fuel loading as, I think, all my add-on aircraft have other ways of loading. I have not really noticed it in other aircraft. Knowing FSX then it is another little 'fun bit' of FSX.

 

Like I said, not a problem but just curious. Something to do while I waited for my 777 to fuel up.

 

Oh, and I love Ryanair, because it shows how good other airlines are. There is a TV program on UK TV and it's a reality show about a certain budget airline, I won't mention then name just say that it is orange, starts with easy and ends in jet. I think they have the same show in the US with a budget airline over there. Anyway, the one in the UK is always people complaining because of stupid rules and poor customer service. Great advertisement.

[tcas_climb 45]

A note on refueling with the APU running. Now this may vary with different Airline or aerodrome operator, but in some cases where a ground power is not available refueling will be allowed if the APU is already running. Refueling is not allowed however while the APU is starting or shutting down.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

I have not checked the standard FSX fuel loading as, I think, all my add-on aircraft have other ways of loading.

 

Regardless of how it's loaded, it's going to be subject to FSX's issues in the end (whether or not the other add-ons display this is another matter, however).

 

 

 

I think they have the same show in the US with a budget airline over there.

 

I don't think it's on anymore, but it was Southwest.  I used to work for an LCC for a while, too (until they went bankrupt: the CRJ isn't the best aircraft for an LCC).  My favorite part was the people making ridiculous claims about the most asinine things.  Had one dude get in my face (I worked ramp, mind you, but my shirt had the airline's name on it, so apparently that means customer service to the dude) for a flight being cancelled.  There was a tornado in Leesburg (only about 7nm away), but apparently the cancellation was unreasonable...

"YOU cancelled MY flight!"

No, sir. [points outside towards JYO.]  THAT cancelled your flight.

"This is ridiculous!  I'm taking my business to Northwest!!!"

The weather is the same on that end of the terminal, too, sir.

**grumbles and storms off**

 

(mind you, his flight got cancelled on the RJ, and they combined it and the latter flight on an A319, so it was pretty much an "upgrade" - still, we were terrible people :rolleyes: )

[voodoo101 21]

Never worked for an airline but worked in Tenerife for 8 years, running entertainment for a group of hotels. It seemed that I was the first port of call for all complaints, no matter how stupid. I had people complaining that the sun had burnt them.

 

1. Do not go to a island that has a summer all year round and it just off the coast of Africa.

2. Make sure you cover up and don't sit in the sun at midday for hours.

3. I do not control the weather.

 

Some people don't understand the reality of what can and can't be done.

 

Just checked and the American Southwest is still being shown on a UK channel, as well as the Australian version with Tiger. Makes me laugh with some of the complaints;

 

Customer: I've just arrived and you have shut the gate.

Staff: We shut the gate at a certain time before the flight.

Customer: But I got held up on the motorway (English for freeway)

Staff: I'm sorry but you have missed the flight.

Customer: Can you get me on?

Staff: I'm sorry but the plane is at the end of the runway now.

[77west 139]

 

 

No, sir. [points outside towards JYO.] THAT cancelled your flight.

First mistake - This ignites the volcano. But such a reward to you!

 

 

 

The weather is the same on that end of the terminal, too, sir.

Second mistake, oh, no wait actually what I would have said. "Sorry, Sir, I am pretty sure their plane will crash and burn just the same as ours! Please have a nice flight!"

Yes - then they put them on something bigger and all of a sudden your a douche for lying. All while the poor CRJ sits grounded...

[scandinavian13 5,192]

First mistake - This ignites the volcano. But such a reward to you!

 

Second mistake, oh, no wait actually what I would have said. "Sorry, Sir, I am pretty sure their plane will crash and burn just the same as ours! Please have a nice flight!"

Yes - then they put them on something bigger and all of a sudden your a douche for lying. All while the poor CRJ sits grounded...

 

I always called myself aircraft support.  I put bags on the plane and took them off, but apart from that, I didn't deal with them.  Same for people.  The company asked that we go in and help the customer service people in any way possible when the ramp was closed, but for reasons I'm sure many around here understand, I was usually helping customer service while away from the passengers.  Passenger logic still baffles me.