STARS & SIDS

[mgh 89]

Many people would like MS to include STARS and SIDS in the next release of FS. I checked the charts for Gatwick (EGKK), which has a pair of parallel runways (only one of which is in use at any given time) and found that:There are 5 STARS with several entry points and which terminate at the named holds:TIMBA (6)ASTRA-North (2)ASTRA-West (3)WILLO-North (4)WILLO-West (3)There are 2 approach procedures each of which gives routes from the 5 holds to NDBs:NDB GY365 for 08RNDB GE338 for 26LThere are 9 separate final approach procedures without radar control to:08R (4)08L (1)26L (3)26R (1)There are 10 SIDS: LAMBOURNE (08 and 26)BIGGIN (08 and 26)CLACTON (08 and 26)HARDY (26 only as alternative to SEAFORD not available 2300-0600 winter and 2200-0500 summer)KENNET (08 and 26 restricted to UK/Eire traffic)SOUTHAMPTON (08 and 26)SEAFORD (08 and 26)DOVER (08 and 26)WIZAD (26 only tactical alternative to DOVER)TIGER (26 only tactical alternative to LAMBOURNE or CLACTON)Two questions:Would it not be asking to much to expect MS to provide this level of detail for airports worldwide?Is there not enough information in the Scenery SDK to enable 3rd parties to develop these for individual airports?

[Guest Charlie Hall]

At the moment there are some add on planes that have a database for them. And that may be the problem, they don't come with scenery so the Scenery SDK wouldn't apply. It could be good if they could somehow be incorporated in AfCad style files perhaps, in a future version.

[Forkboy2 27]

I think most of these are already in a publically available database. So wouldn't it be a matter of MS just incorporating this data into FS and then letting the user choose which SID, STAR, etc. to use?The other problem is that it's not even possible in FS2004 to fly a STAR even if you go thru the trouble of programming it into the flight planner. I'd be happy if it were just possible for the user to program in the SID/STARs themself and have FS let the player fly it. For me, this problem makes 50% of the ATC features in FS useless because I can't file an IFR flight plan.Matt

[Tabs 2,790]

MS has a contract with Jeppesen, I'm sure they'd just import their database in along with the navaids, fixes etc...

[Guest vas_yan]

I think that it would be difficult for MS to incorporate such procedures in the flight simulator database. One thing that they could do is make the flight planner more functional and allow the player to tag parts of the flight plan as SIDs and STARs which the ATC would follow, or, issue direct tos, in accord with the surrounding traffic.Regards,

[Guest Claudius]

Microsoft should include a "real" flightplannerThe "player" must go into a briefinf before he can take off. You'll have to plan fuel usage, calculate a "real" route with enroute weather in mind. Then you must "print" the flight plan and save it in the airlines network. Before you will start, the fuel will be filled into your tanks and the before flightplan is copied into your aircrafts FMCThat would be cool.Just make it more real please

[mgh 89]

The Scenery SDK has a section dealing with approaches and legs that seems to reflect very closely the standard ARINC 424 legs coded as AF - VR.That's why I though 3rd parties could develop packages for airports. I admit I'm not an expert on this.

[Guest ssurjap]

Here's what I found out (by accident):If you land at an airport, shut down, load another flight plan with a SID (or Departure Procedure as they are now called) in it, ATC will let you follow it. An example of this was when I flew from Boeing Field to Phoenix with a stop at Bob Hope Airport (KBUR).I shut down the engines, load the KBUR-KPHX leg, requested clearance, taxied, then took off. The only communications directed to me after the tower handoff to departure were handoffs to departure and center.But of course, if you want the SIDs and STARs now, you can always get Radar Contact.

[mgh 89]

A follow-up post.Am I correct in assuming that SIDS/STARS are already available in some 3rd party packages?Is there an interaction with AI? Are, for example, holds included when traffic levels are high?

[Guest]

Correct. The capability is already there.There are even some approaches in the default database already for a lot of airports, many of which are close to the real ones.I guess the people whining about Microsoft not providing terminal procedures never use the default GPS or at least never took the time to figure out how to use it to its potential which is considerable.

[Guest]

STARs are there in case you get no directions from ATC. As in FS you always get directions from ATC and those override your programmed STAR (as they would in the real world) there's nothing to complain about.

[Guest]

yes. And when you violate any regulations you are grounded until an investigation is concluded.This can be easily simulated by forcing you to spend an amount of time equivalent to several months of simtime sitting behind your computer with FS running but no aircraft being available for your use.If the investigation then decided your license should be revoked FS will remove itself after inserting a registry key which causes any attempt at reinstallation to fail.

[Guest]

SID and DP aren't the same. SIDs are one specific form of DP (or was that DPs being a specific form of SID, I keep forgetting).

[Guest]

Some 3rd party packages include them yes. They may not have a complete database (depending on the completeness of the data used to construct it).There can be no interaction with AI. In real life holds and such are declared by ATC, in FS the ATC AI isn't yet intelligent enough to declare holds (though I have from time to time been sent on very circuitious routes so ATC could line up traffic at decent intervals).

[Guest cw1011]

When you are flying IFR, you can already request some STARS and SIDS in the current version of MSFS. You are given the option then cleared to fly the approach.