What if a passenger asks to see the flight papers?

[simbio 56]

In Europe after landing, I always ask for the flight plan to the captain and after explain about my hobby, generally speaking,  they are always kind.

Even after the 2001 On a flight from EGLL to KMIA on a BA flight, the captain gave me all the dispatch paper.

[g_precentralis 191]

Well, you could try your luck first with let's say a bus driver, ask for his license, bus insurance, ownership etc and let us know how it went hahaha!

 

More seriously, unless you board the aircraft as a local CAA inspector, not one Crew member will let you have a look at the flight paperwork, would it be cargo, passenger manifest, aircraft ownership or maintenance records etc. It's sensitive (and sometimes heavy!) data, and that's a serious breach of safety, for many reasons that people don't discuss on forums.

If some have agreed well good for them, I would be interested too in knowing these airlines, just to make sure I won't fly with them.

We live in times of darkness and your request would sound quite suspicious. Nowadays a word can be enough for offloading and making you spend a couple of hours with some guys that would forever change your views on this industry.

Also bear in mind that a Crew could loose his job for being nice, that's how it goes unfortunately.

 

 

 

As you can see above in other posts, you are wrong. What would be sensitive data in flight documentation? Fuel? Route? Winds? ZFW? Cost index? There's no sensitive data at all (if you exclude pilot signature and id - which is useless as long as you do not give someone to copy it).

 

And please, stop spreading your paranoia about dark world. If you do not ask, you will get nothing.

[mgh 89]

 

 

Well, an aviation enthusiast explaining his interest in such...

 

How abouut a terrorist pretending to be an an aviation enthusiast explaining his interest?

[xplanery 250]

How abouut a terrorist pretending to be an an aviation enthusiast explaining his interest?

 

For a terrorist none of the info in those papers is going to make any difference. 

[mgh 89]

For a terrorist none of the info in those papers is going to make any difference. 

 

Exactly - so how can you check that  an aviation enthusiast explaining his interest isn't a terrorist?

 

 

 

In Europe after landing, I always ask for the flight plan to the captain and after explain about my hobby, generally speaking, they are always kind.

 

Really? In the EU the flight plan (plus other documents) has to be retained for 3 months by the operator by law. Probably most other countries have similar requirements.

[g_precentralis 191]

Really? In the EU the flight plan (plus other documents) has to be retained for 3 months by the operator by law. Probably most other countries have similar requirements.

 

There's a copy. What do you think why they write "master" at the original ofp?

[mgh 89]

There's a copy. What do you think why they write "master" at the original ofp?

 

Because the  flight plan  that has to be retained by law is the one that's  actually carried on the aircraft, and the one actually used by the flight crew.  Will the flight crew keep a second copy on hand to give to rubber-neckers?

[g_precentralis 191]

Because the  flight plan  that has to be retained by law is the one that's  actually carried on the aircraft, and the one actually used by the flight crew.  Will the flight crew keep a second copy on hand to give to rubber-neckers?

 

And they need that copy after flight for what reason? To read it at home as newspaper? Really, you give too much importance to bunch of papers serves nothing (after flight). 

[xplanery 250]

Exactly - so how can you check that  an aviation enthusiast explaining his interest isn't a terrorist?

 

If there's an armed terrorist on board an aircraft the security has already failed. Unarmed terrorist would get beaten up by pax & crew in no time, showing papers to him couldn't cause any harm. 

[mgh 89]

And they need that copy after flight for what reason? To read it at home as newspaper? Really, you give too much importance to bunch of papers serves nothing (after flight). 

 

It's not a questtion "to read it at home as newspaper" but an essential aspect of safety. If there is a subsequent  incident, or even an accident, those papers can  become dealing with it.

 

That why there's a legal requirement to retain those papers, as well a a simple matter of commonsense.

[g_precentralis 191]

It's not a questtion "to read it at home as newspaper" but an essential aspect of safety. If there is a subsequent  incident, or even an accident, those papers can  become dealing with it.

 

That why there's a legal requirement to retain those papers, as well a a simple matter of commonsense.

No. Legal requirement is to retain original (master) papers, with correctly filled times, masses and everything. A copy is just useless bunch of papers after flight. There is no legal requirement to fill a copy with relevant numbers, nor you have to save it. It would be ridiculous to maintain two identical nav logs during flight.

[brucek 38]

To the OP:

 

It's actually commendable that you have an interest in real flight ops.

 

I'm not sure if you are already licensed, or even working towards a license. But if neither, here's an idea. Even if you don't (or legally can't due to medical issues, etc.) intend to ever get your license, what you could do is channel that enthusiasm into studying, sitting and passing written tests.... even going to a community college where some offer the written tests as a class.... you could start with the private pilots' license and move on through the instrument rating, even get as far as the ATP exam, where you would know (in theory at least) as much as anyone else here or at any other aviation site.

 

When I started my private license I knew I didn't have the funds to complete it, but did my private and instrument written tests anyway, at a community college in the SFO Bay Area. Many years later when I actually did my private, then my instrument rating, I had to resit the exam due to the stale-date of the written without the actual license, which I thoroughly enjoyed.

 

You would be amazed how much you would learn.

 

Bruce.

[mgh 89]

No. Legal requirement is to retain original (master) papers, with correctly filled times, masses and everything. A copy is just useless bunch of papers after flight. There is no legal requirement to fill a copy with relevant numbers, nor you have to save it. It would be ridiculous to maintain two identical nav logs during flight.

 

Where do you get the idea that there are multiple copies of everything on the flight desk? For example, there can only be one copy of the operational flight plan because all entries must be made concurrently and that  they must be  permanent in nature.

[g_precentralis 191]

Where do you get the idea that there are multiple copies of everything on the flight desk? For example, there can only be one copy of the operational flight plan because all entries must be made concurrently and that  they must be  permanent in nature.

I saw it with my own eyes, but as that's usually not enough in this kind of discussion, you can always take a look at many videos available at YT and in stores.

[fluffyflops 1,845]

I saw it with my own eyes, but as that's usually not enough in this kind of discussion, you can always take a look at many videos available at YT and in stores.

your lack of actual knowledge is showing, get a job and some experience and come back.

 

at my airline we sometimes will SITA the flight plan to the handler at a station for various operational reasons, ie, the crew may of reporting for egkk-egph-egkk-lebl-egkk and we then change the last 2 sectors to a lepa/

 

at reporting for the flight the crew will get 4 plogs but the 2 sectors have changed, so we will sita the new plogs to the handler.  we keep the original in the office, we even at some point just acars or sita the route string and the total fuel required, the enroute alternate and the destination alternates

 

in that case the 2 drivers dont even get a flightplan as such, rare but it happens.

 

Sometimes it really does annoy me simmers think they know everything due to owning a copy of game.