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Nikdunaev

What if a passenger asks to see the flight papers?

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Hello

 

I understand that it would be quite an unusual situation and such thing is very unlikely to happen, but what do you think will happen should a passenger ask somebody of the crew to see some of the usual standard flight papers like the load manifest and such other things?

I can not think of a good reason for a usual passenger to ask for that, maybe of pure personal interest, as you guess, this guy would likely be a great sim and aviation fan...

What do you think of such a situation?

 

Thank you!

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In this age of extreme security around aviation, I doubt the request would be considered for even a moment.

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I wouldnt even consider asking for that as that kinda question is just begging for a TSA cavity search lol

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Well I think it would be really weird for a pax sitting back there to ask for something like that. However you could try see if you could get a permission to visit the cockpit before/after the flight, there you could ask the pilots directly whether you could take a look at some of that stuff. 

 

Don't know about the US but at least here in Europe getting to take a quick look at the cockpit before / after the flight usually isn't a problem if the pilots aren't busy. 

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Depends where the airlines from, if it's the boring US then it's possible you would be taken off the flight for "terrorist inspection". But as FScamp mentioned if it was in Europe, it shouldn't be an issue if you know how do it right such as asking the step in the flight cockpit.

 

However, asking for fuel aboard is just asking for trouble (fears of hijacking)... If that's included in your wanted papers.

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Even before the recent security incidents you wouldn't have been allowed. To be blunt, it's none of your business.

 

Do you you ask a train driver, bus driver, or taxi operator for his papers?

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Wouldn't even try personally... Ever!

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Easy to do that in Europe. Just ask after flight to speak with captain. Then, ask captain to visit the cockpit. Once you are in cockpit, just ask to take a look at documentation, they will give you.

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Easy to do that in Europe. Just ask after flight to speak with captain. Then, ask captain to visit the cockpit. Once you are in cockpit, just ask to take a look at documentation, they will give you.

 

Will they?

 

EDIT

 

No they won't. EU law only requires a person authorised by an Authority to do that. A passenger isn't authorised.

 

OPS 1.150

 

Production of documentation and records

 

(a) An operator shall:

 

1. give any person authorised by the Authority access to any documents and records which are related to flight operations or maintenance; and

 

2. produce all such documents and records, when requested to do so by the Authority, within a reasonable period of time.

 

(b) The commander shall, within a reasonable time of being requested to do so by a person authorised by an Authority, produce to that person the documentation required to be carried on board.

 

 

COMMISSION REGULATION (EC) No 859/2008 Annex III

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That thing says that they absolutely must give any such thing to the authority if asked as that is required by law.

As in accordance with the general law that certainly does not mean the opposite thing. It does not state that they should not give the same documents to somebody who is not an authority. And everything that is not directly prohibited is legal again in accordance with general law. So it is not their duty by law to provide papers to the passenger but at the same time if they decide to do so there is nothing bad about it.

Also I think that thing describes the procedure of providing those documents for official processing in cases such as mayor inspections of airlines not taking a quick look on them while they are on board.

 

Regarding talking to the pilots directly and being in the cockpit at that time especially after the flight I have done that many times in many countries and it have always been a pleasant experience of talking with friendly people. Touch wood :)

 

Even in America why would anybody take you off the plane for just asking something unusual?

Especially if that is happening after the flight?

 

Also I doubt that some bad guys would actually need to see the exact fuel on board number to plan their bad business :)

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Paranoia rules the airwaves (and airways) today folks.

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That thing says that they absolutely must give any such thing to the authority if asked as that is required by law.

As in accordance with the general law that certainly does not mean the opposite thing. It does not state that they should not give the same documents to somebody who is not an authority. And everything that is not directly prohibited is legal again in accordance with general law.

 

But it's irrevelant because airlines have good not good reasons to show them to any passing rubber-necker - they'll be told politely to tend mind their own business..

 

The legal requrements are:

 

OPS 1.125

 

Documents to be carried

 

(a) An operator shall ensure that the following documents or copies thereof are carried on each flight:

 

1. the Certificate of Registration;

2. the Certificate of Airworthiness;

3. the original or a copy of the Noise Certificate (if applicable), including an English translation, where one has been provided by the Authority responsible for issuing the noise certificate;

4. the original or a copy of the Air Operator Certificate;

5. the Aircraft Radio Licence; and

6. the original or a copy of the Third Party Liability Insurance Certificate(s).

( B) Each flight crew member shall, on each flight, carry a valid flight crew licence with appropriate rating(s) for the purpose of the flight.

 

 

OPS 1.130

 

Manuals to be carried

 

An operator shall ensure that:

 

1. the current parts of the Operations Manual relevant to the duties of the crew are carried on each flight;

2. those parts of the Operations Manual which are required for the conduct of a flight are easily accessible to the crew on board the aeroplane; and

3. the current Aeroplane Flight Manual is carried in the aeroplane unless the Authority has accepted that the Operations Manual prescribed in OPS 1.1045, Appendix 1, Part B contains relevant information for that aeroplane.

 

OPS 1.135

 

Additional information and forms to be carried

 

(a) An operator shall ensure that, in addition to the documents and manuals prescribed in OPS 1.125 and OPS 1.130, the following information and forms, relevant to the type and area of operation, are carried on each flight:

 

1. Operational Flight Plan containing at least the information required in OPS 1.1060;

2. Aeroplane Technical Log containing at least the information required in Part M, paragraph M. A. 306 Operator’s technical log system;

3. details of the filed ATS flight plan;

4. appropriate NOTAM/AIS briefing documentation;

5. appropriate meteorological information;

6. mass and balance documentation as specified in Subpart J;

7. notification of special categories of passenger such as security personnel, if not considered as crew, handicapped persons, inadmissible passengers, deportees and persons in custody;

8. notification of special loads including dangerous goods including written information to the commander as prescribed in OPS 1.1215 ©;

9. current maps and charts and associated documents as prescribed in OPS 1.290 ( B)(7);

10. any other documentation which may be required by the States concerned with this flight, such as cargo manifest, passenger manifest etc; and

11. forms to comply with the reporting requirements of the Authority and the operator.

 

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Will they?

They usually will. Why not? Maybe if they are carrying something dangerous (how dangerous can it be if it's transported together with passengers?) they would not show you payload manifest.

 

To be honest I never asked for payload manifest, but they show me ofp, mass and balance, wx documentation, notams... whole flight package.

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They usually will. Why not? Maybe if they are carrying something dangerous (how dangerous can it be if it's transported together with passengers?) they would not show you payload manifest.

 

To be honest I never asked for payload manifest, but they show me ofp, mass and balance, wx documentation, notams... whole flight package.

 

 

which airline do you work for please ?

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which airline do you work for please ?

 

I do not work for airline, that's just my experience as a passenger, although I always carry at least my flight school id and license. 

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I would never give anyone our flight papers. They've got our names and employee numbers on them!

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I do not work for airline, that's just my experience as a passenger, although I always carry at least my flight school id and license. 

thought as much as your talking a load of rubbish

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thought as much as your talking a load of rubbish

I'm sorry, mister faa licenced dispatcher.

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Unless you have a "need to know" (which an aviation fan or simmer doesn't), at least here in the US (or on any carrier's flight to the US) I think you could be questioned by authorities and potentially land yourself on a "no-fly" list. I wish I was wrong,, and maybe I am, but I would be very cautious.

 

Bruce.

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I'm sorry, mister faa licenced dispatcher.

 

Ive worked for 4 airlines over 14 years, 1 long haul, one low cost, one charter and one short haul legacy, so yes a tiny bit of experience.

 

some captains will happily give you a spare plog after the flight if they have a spare one, it, some will not. simple as that.

 

some airlines ask their pilots to give the plogs back with amended fuel figures which are used to biase the aircraft database in the flightplanning system.

 

and as the other poster said, the plogs have commerically sensetive infomation on it, such as what fuel reserve/policy the company use, what the payload was, and also the crews names and staff numbers etc etc.

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some captains will happily give you a spare plog after the flight if they have a spare one, it, some will not. simple as that.

 

Please quote me where I state that captain will give you anything to carry with you? As I said, they will give you to take a look, not to carry it home. Agree, it would be dumb to give papers with your name, id numbers, signature... to any passenger.

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Well, you could try your luck first with let's say a bus driver, ask for his license, bus insurance, ownership etc and let us know how it went hahaha!

 

More seriously, unless you board the aircraft as a local CAA inspector, not one Crew member will let you have a look at the flight paperwork, would it be cargo, passenger manifest, aircraft ownership or maintenance records etc. It's sensitive (and sometimes heavy!) data, and that's a serious breach of safety, for many reasons that people don't discuss on forums.

If some have agreed well good for them, I would be interested too in knowing these airlines, just to make sure I won't fly with them.

We live in times of darkness and your request would sound quite suspicious. Nowadays a word can be enough for offloading and making you spend a couple of hours with some guys that would forever change your views on this industry.

Also bear in mind that a Crew could loose his job for being nice, that's how it goes unfortunately.

 

Very clever to make fun of Dispatchers, not one airliner would be in the sky right now without NOCs and Dispatchers!

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Easy to do that in Europe. Just ask after flight to speak with captain. Then, ask captain to visit the cockpit. Once you are in cockpit, just ask to take a look at documentation, they will give you.

just there, "they will give you"

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