Offset Approach

[ap1 16]

For example, the Lynxx Eight arrival into KBUR I think requires a sort of holding pattern which I think is an offset approach.  Can I use the heading on the autopilot to fly the holding pattern/offset, or is that not the correct way?  Thanks.

[ronzie 21]

If you want to use the non-mandatory holding at LYNNX use NOTAMS and fly it. If you select holding in the controller options RC will pick the waypoint or fix for holding. It frequently uses a VOR. It doesn't state anything about an intersection.

 

Incidentally, racetrack descent patterns for steep altitude arrivals are often used in rough terrain. I usually fly these IAP or NOTAMS to get down per published approaches.

[ap1 16]

If you want to use the non-mandatory holding at LYNNX use NOTAMS and fly it. If you select holding in the controller options RC will pick the waypoint or fix for holding. It frequently uses a VOR. It doesn't state anything about an intersection.

 

Incidentally, racetrack descent patterns for steep altitude arrivals are often used in rough terrain. I usually fly these IAP or NOTAMS to get down per published approaches.

Actually, I think I misstated what I meant, sorry.  If you look at the ILS plate for 8, it has VNY as a fedder route to go to SILEX which is the IF/IAF and probably in this case, the IAF.  So my question is how to do the holding pattern through SILEX.  Thanks for the reply anyway.  I might try holding patterns anyway, I've never fiddled with that option before.

[ronzie 21]

SILEX by itself can be an awkward entry point depending on arrival direction. I think the racetrack is to allow an outbound then inbound pattern to allow descent before the inbound SILEX crossing at 3700. The vertical profile shows that. If you come in on TOAKS then that pattern is not necessary as once past TOAKS you can drop to 3700.

 

CEEMY2 uses SILEX for the IAF and would require the racetrack outbound, then inbound.

[ap1 16]

SILEX by itself can be an awkward entry point depending on arrival direction. I think the racetrack is to allow an outbound then inbound pattern to allow descent before the inbound SILEX crossing at 3700. The vertical profile shows that. If you come in on TOAKS then that pattern is not necessary as once past TOAKS you can drop to 3700.

 

CEEMY2 uses SILEX for the IAF and would require the racetrack outbound, then inbound.

So what should I do then?  Should I go from VNY to SILEX, and then turn back to SILEX, and then use the ILS?  Also, I thought the CEMMY arrival allowed you to go from SILEX, and then to the FAF?  Thanks.

[ronzie 21]

You are correct. The CEEMY2 allows descent to SILEX @ 3700. RC will initiate vectors before VNY. However if you look at the ILS 8 IAP VNY itself is not in line being too close to the runway so you'd go to SILEX fly outbound in the racetrak and then turn inbound.]

 

The IAP chart is to scale and the STAR places VNY approximately. VNY (on the Van Nuys airport) is even with the BUDDE intersection being only 6 nm from the threshold of R8. You'd have to fly west to SILEX and the turn around to fly east on the ILS to the runway using the racetrack.

 

I cross checkked using Plan G's map.

 

It is almost like flying a teardrop entry.

 

RC if you accept vectors would break you out of the STAR by flying you on a west downwind, then base and offset intercept further out (unless you request a short final) to fly in on the ILS. RC would not fly you over VNY because it is too close to the runway center line. RC does not allow for racetrack procedures for reversing that close to the runway.

[ap1 16]

You are correct. The CEEMY2 allows descent to SILEX @ 3700. RC will initiate vectors before VNY. However if you look at the ILS 8 IAP VNY itself is not in line being too close to the runway so you'd go to SILEX fly outbound in the racetrak and then turn inbound.]

 

The IAP chart is to scale and the STAR places VNY approximately. VNY (on the Van Nuys airport) is even with the BUDDE intersection being only 6 nm from the threshold of R8. You'd have to fly west to SILEX and the turn around to fly east on the ILS to the runway using the racetrack.

 

I cross checkked using Plan G's map.

 

It is almost like flying a teardrop entry.

 

RC if you accept vectors would break you out of the STAR by flying you on a west downwind, then base and offset intercept further out (unless you request a short final) to fly in on the ILS. RC would not fly you over VNY because it is too close to the runway center line. RC does not allow for racetrack procedures for reversing that close to the runway.

If I am to fly the whole IAP, how would I fly that racetrack pattern?  Do you use the heading select on the autopilot?  Thanks.

[ronzie 21]

If it is an actual hold by ATC and you have an FMC with terminal procedures, the racetrack might be in there to follow. Other alternatives are heading controls on the AP. I use the heading control if it is just a once or twice around to lose altitude. On an FMC there is a FIX or HLD tab where you can enter the holding information and exit when ready.

 

Here's the ILS8 FMS data extract as an example:

 

"APPROACH ILSZ08 FIX SILEX AT OR ABOVE 3700 FIX BUDDE AT 2752 RNW 08 HDG 076 UNTIL 1300 TURN RIGHT DIRECT FIX VNY AT 4000 FIX SILEX AT 4000 HOLD AT FIX SILEX RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 076 LEGTIME 1
 TRANSITION FIM FIX FIM FIX TOAKS AT OR ABOVE 4400
 TRANSITION LAX FIX LAX FIX SILEX AT OR ABOVE 4600 HOLD AT FIX SILEX RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 076 ALT 4000 LEGTIME 1
 TRANSITION SMO FIX SMO FIX SILEX AT OR ABOVE 4400 HOLD AT FIX SILEX RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 076 ALT 4000 LEGTIME 1
 TRANSITION VNY FIX VNY FIX SILEX AT OR ABOVE 4400 HOLD AT FIX SILEX RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 076 ALT 4000 LEGTIME 1
 TRANSITION VTU FIX VTU FIX TOAKS AT OR ABOVE 4600"

 

You can see there are options depending on your intercept waypoint so if you select upon being assigned the runway and enter it in your FMC you can have it fly it for you

 

Note that the SILEX hold is on all transition points. The 4000 hold altitude is the flat line on the vertical profile.

 

(This data is from Jan 2013 so it may be slightly different from the current IAP plate which allows the hold at or above 4000 and crossing SILEX at or above 3700.)

 

http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/BUR/IAP/ILS+OR+LOC+Z+RWY+08/pdf

 

As you leave the hold you allow the lock to RAW data selecting it on the Autopilot (MCP on a jet cockpit ILS/LOC/VOR button choices).

 

Notice that RNAV IAP is published also and they still terminate with a hold at SILEX. RNAV procedures have more waypoints for defining curves and turns.

[ap1 16]

If it is an actual hold by ATC and you have an FMC with terminal procedures, the racetrack might be in there to follow. Other alternatives are heading controls on the AP. I use the heading control if it is just a once or twice around to lose altitude. On an FMC there is a FIX or HLD tab where you can enter the holding information and exit when ready.

 

Here's the ILS8 FMS data extract as an example:

 

"APPROACH ILSZ08 FIX SILEX AT OR ABOVE 3700 FIX BUDDE AT 2752 RNW 08 HDG 076 UNTIL 1300 TURN RIGHT DIRECT FIX VNY AT 4000 FIX SILEX AT 4000 HOLD AT FIX SILEX RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 076 LEGTIME 1

 TRANSITION FIM FIX FIM FIX TOAKS AT OR ABOVE 4400

 TRANSITION LAX FIX LAX FIX SILEX AT OR ABOVE 4600 HOLD AT FIX SILEX RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 076 ALT 4000 LEGTIME 1

 TRANSITION SMO FIX SMO FIX SILEX AT OR ABOVE 4400 HOLD AT FIX SILEX RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 076 ALT 4000 LEGTIME 1

 TRANSITION VNY FIX VNY FIX SILEX AT OR ABOVE 4400 HOLD AT FIX SILEX RIGHT TURN INBOUNDCOURSE 076 ALT 4000 LEGTIME 1

 TRANSITION VTU FIX VTU FIX TOAKS AT OR ABOVE 4600"

 

You can see there are options depending on your intercept waypoint so if you select upon being assigned the runway and enter it in your FMC you can have it fly it for you

 

Note that the SILEX hold is on all transition points. The 4000 hold altitude is the flat line on the vertical profile.

 

(This data is from Jan 2013 so it may be slightly different from the current IAP plate which allows the hold at or above 4000 and crossing SILEX at or above 3700.)

 

http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/BUR/IAP/ILS+OR+LOC+Z+RWY+08/pdf

 

As you leave the hold you allow the lock to RAW data selecting it on the Autopilot (MCP on a jet cockpit ILS/LOC/VOR button choices).

 

Notice that RNAV IAP is published also and they still terminate with a hold at SILEX. RNAV procedures have more waypoints for defining curves and turns.

I don't have an FMC.  The default GPS is what I'm using.  It has approach procedures, but there outdated.  I guess what I should do is just use vectors for this.  Thanks.