Bizjets - Learn to Love Them

[Mithras 87]

On FMCs, I should have said ... I'm not averse to them being in the cockpit, but I'm not up to scratch to use one. Instead I use my iPad as a moving map GPS, with heading info, TTG, distance to go, and digital readouts, which picks up the Flight Plan and displays as a magenta line. So that is my 'FMC' which sits nicely in my cockpit setup.

 

My real point was that the bizjet seems to me like an airliner that can get away with short trips and fly into both big and small airports.

[michal 44]

 

 

My real point was that the bizjet seems to me like an airliner that can get away with short trips and fly into both big and small airports.

And some nice fast turboprop can do it even better :Big Grin:

[Howellerman 104]

And some nice fast turboprop can do it even better :Big Grin:

Heya Michael, 

 

Not so sure about that. I have the TBM 850, purportedly the fastest turboprop, and the Phenom 100, both from Carenado. I have been doing a European capital city tour, and the TBM, across 5 flights, averages 238.4 kts flying speed. That is take-off to landing, full stop. The Phenom averaged 292.8 kts, averaged across 6 flights.

 

Now, these are arithmetic means, but I tend to choose the aircraft that will get me from point A to B in 1 hour. So, the flight time is roughly the same for both aircraft, with a slide nod to the TBM offering shorter flights.

 

What I have found is that the Phenom, not really a hot-rod in the grand scope of biz jets, climbs a lot faster than the TBM, and because of that enjoys a flight level about 10K feet above the TBM. This could account for some of the difference, but not much. 

 

That being said, a true hot-rod biz jet (ala a Citation or Lear) would smoke a turbo-prop. Nonetheless, I do enjoy flying the TBM when the flight fits!

[zmak 331]

How about flight one mustang? its a small jet but can land at around 80-90kts with full flap. Its PMDG quality with a WAAS Gps and easy to use if you can spare a few hours and fly the tutorial

 

http://www.avsim.com/pages/1109/Flight1/Mustang.htm

[michal 44]

Well John, I understand but I beg to differ - I am applying real-world criteria, as well as my own criteria (but of course), and not what

we do in the sim. I am also driven by consideration that a single-engine turboprop would be within my financial reach to get rated on, jet never.

 

TBM will get you faster from say Chicago to Florida - it can do it nonstop while your Phenom will require a refueling stop.

If you are flying single-pilot in Phenom - anytime you are above FL350 you will have to wear an oxygen mask - a very, very uncomfortable proposition,

(and practically intolerable for someone who had to shell out millions for this jet) so you are practically forced to hire another pilot - things get very

expensive very quickly. Actually as one Phenom pilot paradoxically found out hiring another pilot is cheaper than paying exorbitant insurance premium

for the privilage of being a single pilot on the Phenom. Not being a single pilot would ruin things for me a bit I must admit. In other words - there are multiple

roadblocks thrown at you if you insist on flying a jet.

 

Also, in my opinion the terrain looks much more attractive from FL300 than from FL400 and there is additional benefit - airspace

below FL300 is underutilized in the US, much easier to find flexibility in the ATC system, easy to fly direct, you are not competing for limited

airspace with commercial jets. I grant you that Phenom can climb faster and be above weather quicker - but in my "dreams" I am not "flying" TBM

to meet rigorous business schedule, I am flying for fun, perhaps to vacation destinations, to do say scuba dving in some remote islands

in the Bahamas, etc.

 

Also TBM will get me to much smaller airports than Phenom, some of the prettiest in this country.

 

And this all before you even start comparing operating costs.

[P*Funk 9]

This is why I like the Dash 8. 45-90 minute flights, going from large airports into small ones and vice versa, ridiculously short landing distance, lots of manual goodies so you're not staring at clouds, you're actually planning your flight at cruise because cruise isn't very long and if ATC gives you a vector rather than letting you follow your flight plan exactly down (which will always happen in controlled space in the UK far as I can tell) you need to do all that wonderful mental math about figuring out where your TOD will be, how fast to go to ensure you do constant descent and end up where you want to be. No autothrottle, half useless VNAV, and its high thin wing makes it lively on finals when you're in gusty crosswinds, useless yaw damper that requires you to actually kick some rudder into your turns and takeoffs.

 

To me the Dash is the perfect compromise between airliner and relaxed VFR. Fly out of Birmingham, into Isle of Man, out to Glasgow, up to Inverness, back down to Belfast City, down all the way to Jersey. You can do that in one night if you like in the same time a guy in a 737 would take to get from NY to LA. To me the Dash 8 is the perfect mate for all that lovely UK2000 scenery.

[Howellerman 104]

That pesky real-world stuff, always getting the final word...   

 

In that context yes, the TBM is the superior craft. The Phenom is a little fuel-pig, that's for sure. And I was certainly unaware of the oxygen mask requirement above FL350, as I have zero experience (nor inclination, at my age and amount of debt) of ever becoming a RW pilot.

 

But, since my personal real world requirements limit me to an hour flight or so, the little pig will do. But, as you can see from the flight counts, I do enjoy my TBM. Of course, I enjoy my Legacy more, but that is a completely different story.

[michal 44]

 

 

That pesky real-world stuff, always getting the final word...   
 

Yeah, sorry for this real-world slant, I was simming for a very long time then returned back to real-world flying and it hit me (as if I were punched by a heavy-weight boxer) how real-world flying is dissimilar from simming, completely lost interest in 'gaming' simulation, occasional do fire Garmin's G1000 simulator to sharpen my real-world skills.

[~Craig~ 10]

I think the real point that the OP is making is simply that he prefers the simpler, less complex approach to flying - which is fine.    

 

It's not really relevent to "airline vs bizjet" flying IMHO, because as others have said, Bizjets (certainly in the modern age) have FMCs and in many cases (such as the Citation X) just as much complexity and systems as an airliner.   The difference is in the missions and flying.    Also as said, bizjet operators often have more complexity as there is often no advanced planning, so they need to do dispatch work to; NOTAMs, weather, planning, logistics, etc, etc.

If you're not interested in FMCs that's cool, as the default GPS will basically get you there too. What I would say though is that investing some time in learning a realistic FMC operation is highly rewarding.

Best bizjets available so far, in my opinion:-

- Flight 1 Cessna Mustang
- Eaglesoft Citation X 2.0

both are complex, fully featured aircraft.   For the simpler taste, I recommend the XP Prototypes Lear 24.

[Howellerman 104]

 

 

how real-world flying is dissimilar from simming

 

Kind of wandering off topic here, but I have a friend that was (operative word, was) twin-engine rated, owned his aircraft (through his company), but just stopped flying. He really hated the increasingly draconian requirements and restrictions for flying, not to mention the increasing costs. And the divorce that cost him his plane, but that is another story!

 

 

Best bizjets available so far, in my opinion:-

- Flight 1 Cessna Mustang
- Eaglesoft Citation X 2.0

both are complex, fully featured aircraft.   For the simpler taste, I recommend the XP Prototypes Lear 24.

 

Heya Craig, 

 

I too enjoyed the Mustang, but it is a no-go in the P3D world. The Eaglesoft team is working on a Citation update (don't remember the specific model) and it promises to be at the head of the class when it become available. I enjoy flying the eXtreme Prototypes Lear jets quite a bit, but I really (REALLY) try to avoid cycling through the interior cabin view: that girl is scary! 

 

Will have to see how Lionheart Creations Lear 24 turns out - should be released soon.

[michal 44]

 

 

He really hated the increasingly draconian requirements and restrictions for flying

It would be interesting to pin him down exactly what he meant. After 9/11 there are certainly new restrictions if you want to fly/land with close proximity to Washington DC or NYC - it would never bother me, I am a lowly GA pilot and I would land way outside of this ADIZ zone anyway to avoid the hassle. But apart from that little changed in the last 20 years, sure costs are going up like everything else but GA flying in the US is still a lot cheaper and less bureaucratic than in Europe.

[Howellerman 104]

Heya Michael, 

 

   I don't remember the particulars (late night chat over bourbons, ya know), but I do remember the certification schedule was stepped up in frequency (12 months to 6 months?), and he does a lot of business in the southern part of the US. While he never encountered it, he and I have heard that GA flights are met with armed TAC squads if/when you fly close to the border. Drug mules, I guess. 

 

   But, I do agree with your comment - has to be a hell of a lot cheaper and less bureaucratic than in Europe. That being said, it seems that GA flying is on the wane in the US - although we still account for 70-percent of all GA sales world-wide. I had a conversation with the wife of the operator of Goheen airport (near Battle Ground, WA) recently, and she said the decline was pretty steep after 9/11 and their airport is but a shadow of itself from the halcyon days of yore. They have been running that airport for years, so I imagine she has some perspective.

[michal 44]

 

 

I have heard that GA flights are met with armed TAC squads

Yeah, good point John, I heard about it too, these are CBP (Custom Border Patrol) squads. Apparently after some AOPA action CBP commissioner promised to curtail such behavior, we will see.

 

 

 

That being said, it seems that GA flying is on the wane in the US

True, unfortunately true.

[~Craig~ 10]

 

 

Heya Craig, 
 
I too enjoyed the Mustang, but it is a no-go in the P3D world. The Eaglesoft team is working on a Citation update (don't remember the specific model) and it promises to be at the head of the class when it become available. I enjoy flying the eXtreme Prototypes Lear jets quite a bit, but I really (REALLY) try to avoid cycling through the interior cabin view: that girl is scary! 
 
Will have to see how Lionheart Creations Lear 24 turns out - should be released soon.

 

Ah, I see John.   I've not made the step to P3D yet. :smile:   I've got FSX running like a dream so I'm scared to upset the apple cart!

[Howellerman 104]

Ah, I see John.   I've not made the step to P3D yet. :smile:   I've got FSX running like a dream so I'm scared to upset the apple cart!

Fully agree, Craig - I am actually on V1.4, flying is great, and while I am really interested in V2.3, am not feeling compelled to make the jump!