Abacus: Corporate Pilot 2

[Guest GOP]

I just purchased a new video card for my machine and took a trip into my local game/book store whom allways seem to have a couple of add-ons for Flight Sim. Originally looking for a scenery package, sold out, so I bought corporate pilot 2 instead. All six of the planes had been wants of mine and the working FMC was a bonus. To be short, blunt, not sweet! The only thing good with this add-on is the auto installer,documentation, the box it came in! The planes exterior and panel's, let's just say we had better freeware for FS98 than this package. I bought the first release of corporate pilot for FS2000 and still use the panels for some freeware packages in fS9. The original was a far better package. To be nice the planes look good enough to keep, but the panels I'll be searching for better freeware ones! This package is so bad that if I downloaded any of the planes as freeware, they would be deleted and would think twice before I downloaded another creation from that author!

[CraigC 0]

In my own humble opinion, Abacus has, over the past few years fallen behind big time. Their products used to be right up there when FS98 and 2000 were hot. To be completely honest, the models don't look all that much better than they did back then. I saw many of their products on the shelf at CompUSA a few weekends ago. I'm not sure what their business strategy is, but I think they have a much higher capability than what they are showing through their current products in the FS arena. If I didn't know any better, I would say it looks like they are pumping out aircraft as quickly as possible to get on with other projects or save money. Who knows...Craig

[Brian_Gladden 0]

Since this is a payware project so you can say what you want. However just remember a few things. Most of the planes were done by Rey Lopez. They were not completely finished when he entered the hospital and then passed away. The files were sent to a few folks for final packaging but basicly they were left alone as is, since no one wanted to "mess" with Rey's work. I also made a plane for this package (the Safire)and if I had released it as freeware I'm sure it wouldn't be slammed quite like this, based on the comments I have recived on my other freeware work. you realize with this package, you get six planes, two custom PFD gauges, engine display gauges and an FMC, all for the price of one plane from someone else. Yes the there could be all custom gauges but then it would be much more expensive few copies would be sold. Compromizes have to be made somwhere. There is a big limitation on packages like this and it's the panels. Most freeware packages have the option of using virtualy any gauge available for the panels. Not so for payware. All that can be used are either custom coded from scratch gauges or defaults. When I make a panel for a payware project I have maybe 150 gauges I can choose from, vs. the thousands I have sitting on my hard drive that I can use for a freeware project. Yes you can custom code all new gauges for a single plane (ala Eaglesoft) and then you have one plane that costs as much as all six in the CP2 package, just because of the time spent in gauge coding alone. I'm not saying anything bad against Eaglesoft at all, I love their work. Also when you have all custom gauges, you sometimes have compatibility problems (I can't run the Eaglesoft Citation X in its stock form on my system due to gauge problems) most of the Abacus products are targeted at new simmers and those that do not have internet access. Hard core simmers like most of the folks here on Avsim go somewhere else.But Like I said, you bought it so you can complain about it but I thought I would let you know a little about what is actualy going on.Brian Gladden

[Guest deKoven]

>Snip, snip> most of>the Abacus products are targeted at new simmers and those that>do not have internet access. Hard core simmers like most of>the folks here on Avsim go somewhere else.>>But Like I said, you bought it so you can complain about it>but I thought I would let you know a little about what is>actualy going on.>>>Brian GladdenThanks Brian, I'm glad you took the time to give a little background. What follows is not a dump on you in any way, just my thoughts on Abacus itself.I'm NOT a fan of Abacus and no longer even look to buy from them. However, one always has to be able to "make an exception" for something which maybe will be useful. That said, I won't be buying this one.My problem with the scenario you suggested is this; Abacus "contracted" to publish this package. Now certainly the original developer died but they owe, or owed, their public the courtesy of checking and possibly bringing in a new team to finish what was started. If it were a free package in tribute to Rey then I'd consider it finished as is. It's NOT! It is a package which is being sold for money. When I buy something I want the quality my money is suggesting. I'm guessing here that Abacus don't really care whether Rey died while working on this. Their objective is to make money for their (shareholders?) only. They don't seem to understand that the reputation which they once had is slowly slipping down the drain.

[rightseat 277]

Yeah, business is business. But Rey was Rey. I'm glad they didn't change it. Nuff said. I'm sorry you feel burned, but I disagree with you 110%.

[John_Cillis 2,406]

Nobody goes in blind buying a product--at least those who read these forums shouldn't. Abacus has and continues to release products for the casual market and distributes them in convenient ways--through retail outlets as an example. There've been many threads on the subject so simmers should have long since been warned. So IMHO it is crazy to expect them to produce something like an Eaglesoft Citation X, and I always warn people that going into a purchase from them expecting that will result in heartache. I have no sympathy for anyone who has purchased this package and is now complaining--$29 for six aircraft so about $5.00 apiece. What quality are we expecting for $5.00 apiece? Of course the package is being sold for money--it's an entertainment package as all of their products are. It's not being sold to the "does it have an FMS" audience.I was going to comment about Rey yesterday but Brian beat me to it. I have the source from one of his projects--his Cessna 310--which I will update and release at some point as a tribute to his work in our hobby. When I first took on the project, I knew a heck of a lot less about FSDS 2 than I do now. Some of the contributors to Abacus' product--Dave, Rey and Brian, have taught me much through their participation in the forums. I can say that these three designers are (were) sincere in their motives for particpating in Abacus project, and if their effort is to entertain those who just want a fun aircraft to fly, then they've served the community well.-John

[Guest GOP]

As freeware most of the planes would be good efforts, but as a pay package considering the works of some of the freeware out, nope! Veneaviones Simulations Group Rockwell Turbo Commander 690B and Citation come to mind. The latter I'm using the panel from the Corporate Pilot first releases Citation X. So it is not that I'm not a fan of the stuff Abucus has turned out in the past. In fact most of my favorite paid for products for FS2000; the Private and Corporate Pilot, along with Flight Deck II releases by Abacus Publishing are amongst my favorites of all time! Since, Mr Gladden is present! Your PC-12 is another favorite of mine, wish it was a TBM-700 (my favorite), but this plane is a close second to having one! At the $10 that Abacus charges for it, a good deal and if a TBM was available at the same level for the same money, I would buy it! But if they charged what FSD does than I expect alot better for that money. But for $10 bucks my expectations are lower to were the plane should be at the same level or slightly higher than the best freeware out at the time. My only complaint about the PC-12 is the interior and panel are a little low on the look side of things. Same with the Safire in the package. Exterior its a fine looking little airplane that flies nice as well. Paying for it, she get's low marks simply because of what is out for free in terms of panels and interior views, same for the PC-12! Granted that I did and do expect a little less from a package that contains multiple planes within, in this case six! Apart from the FMC, planes in this package looked tossed together. Than you discover that it was because of the death of one of the authors. Visualy on the outside the only planes that are lacking a bit more are the Gulfstream III and the Premier I. But they would be good freeware packages for exterior models, the rest are excellant as freeware. As payware the mentioned are mediocre and the rest are slightly above that, slightly good! Flight dynamics are good for all except for the Premier I, and exceptable for a multiple pay package. The Premier one likes to flutter and nose dive on you at any speed, impossible to trim! The two Adams planes are rather nice looking and a little better than the rest, only little over the Safire.The problem with this package is the look of the panels, very mediocre in 2D and very sad in VC for a pay package. The worse of the bunch is the Gulfstream, followed by the the Citation X. The best here are the Adams and if the rest had the same level as them the package would be alot better. The Adams however falls a bit because they use the identical panel for the jet and prop (500 & 700) versions. Hence why no panel screen shot for the jet on their wbsite I guess! Add in the FMC though and my outlook improves overall, except I cant get over the panels look nothing like their real world craft that they model!After using the package for a little more time the rating improved a bit, but it's still not worth $29.95. Still think we had better panels in FS98 by them than what is currently being released by Abacus.. In that department the panels are barely good freeware even with the FMC!!!! Originally I was going to buy USA Extreme Landscapes but the store sold all it's copies, know I'm not going to buy it! Corporate Pilot rates a generious 2 and a half stars, cause of the Rey Lopez planes and the FMC!

[N400QW 205]

Brian, email me and we'll see if we can sort out your problem :-)

[Guest GOP]

I bought the

[Brian_Gladden 0]

"if a TBM was available at the same level for the same money, I would buy it! "I think Abacus is gonna get more of your money :-smile12 It's gonna have a much better VC than the 12. I've at least been inside a TBM... Not like the PC-12 where the closest I've ever been to a real one is across the ramp. No timeline on the TBM since I have a couple of projects ahead of it in the que. Since I've been out of work, the guys at Abacus have been nice and thrown as much work at me as I can do. Keeps the power and cable bills paid anyway. But at this rate, I'm gonna be really sick of mac and cheese by the time I find a new job :-lolBrian

[Guest GOP]

My former employer ordered an TBM and than got into a major lawsuit with a competitor, they lost! They could no longer afford me or the TBM. Before the order I got to go for the test ride and since I was the only person in the company who had some plane knowledge. Socata sent me all the manuals for it. Gotta dig them out, should still have them someplace. The FS world will be the closest I'll come to the TBM! The original Private Pilot release contained your PC12? I know it had one. Slowly the burn of spending thirty bucks with taxes is fealing less! Think I'm getting spoiled with all the good freeware releases lately. From the other Abacus thread think alot of us are spoiled with freeware!

[G7USL 117]

I would just like to point out that 'Abacus Systems' who produce an excellent 'VC-10' at http://www.flightsim.com/pilotshop/AbacusV...c10JumpPage.htmare in no way connected with 'Abacus Corporate Pilot'.Posted by a more than satisfied and appreciated customer.Dave.'Three greens and soft landings'