Understanding Bottlenecking

[Kuragiman 227]

I have been reading a lot lately about trying to understand system bottlenecks and how to avoid them and by all I have seen my system shouldn't be doing it but I am confused still by the results.   Here is a shot of my system in real time with Prepar3D v2.3 running in the background.

 

I have an i7 3930k OC @ 4.3ghz with a GTX 770 OC II and 32gigs of G.Skill 1866mhz RAM (I do a lot of photowork.  Needed the RAM).

 

It is my understanding that if the CPU isn't bottoming out, which it is not in this benchmark (I am told one core near 100% is normal for P3D/FSX operations) then the Video GPU should be rocking and rolling.  But as you can see in this benchmark, P3D is only drawing 30% of the total raw power of the video card GPU.  @_@    From all the videos I watched and things I read my GPU should be nearer to 100% usage if the software is using it right.   You would think a simulation like this would try to grab as much of the GPU as possible especially since P3D is GPU heavy instead of CPU.   You can't see in these caps but my RAM load is about 42% also.   The end results is that sitting at KDAL default scenery in a 737 or even a Carenado Grand Caravan the FPS is 18 with traffic turned on.  It's about 24 with it off.   But off or on, the CPU nor the GPU load changes much at all.

 

What am I missing here?   Others have reported running P3D in Payware aircraft with moderate/high settings and getting 30-40 FPS consistently.   Of note in my settings, I have autogen completely off right now and scene complexity at High.    There is no way, with those killers turned off, that I should still be sitting at 18 FPS in the VC at a default scenery airport.   The weather is partly cloudly, generated by ASN with the cloud size fix applied.    

 

Outside the palne the FPS is about 30.  If look away from the terminal and out across the landscape toward downtown Dallas my FPS maxes out at 60 FPS but STILL the GPU doesn't go much about 30%.   Can anyone think of anything I am missing?

 

All the benchmark programs I run from Nvidia ramp the card up to 99% like it should be so no bottlenecking at least in Nvidia benchmark software packages that I have run.  P3D though, clearly the program is not using the full power of the Video card.  I am stumped.   Thanks in advance for any and all who can chime in on this subject.

 

Moderators, I didn't know if this should be in the P3D forums or PC Hardware since it kind of pertains to both.  Feel free to move it if need be.

 

 

[Bert Pieke 7,584]

How do you know that your CPU is not "bottoming out"?

 

If your CPU is the limiting factor in this scenario, your GPU cannot improve things by working harder.

[Kattz 132]

I haven't upgraded yet, but from all the complaints I've skimmed over here on AVSIM, seems like 2.3 is a real FPS killer.  Any improvement with 2.2?

[Kuragiman 227]

How do you know that your CPU is not "bottoming out"?

 

If your CPU is the limiting factor in this scenario, your GPU cannot improve things by working harder.

 

Because in many of my tests the the most taxed out core sometimes never gets beyond 70% used.  Generally, from what I read, if your cores are punched at 100% you just over taxed it and it will now start hurting your GPU's ability to perform because it is having to wait for the CPU to free up cycles to get instructions to and from the system thus you generally see your GPU usage drop.   It is my understanding, on a properly balanced system, the GPU should be more closer to 100% instead of sitting down at a idling 30%.    If this is wrong I'd like clarification.   Supposedly, the GTX 770 is perfectly matched for user with the i7 3930k and it is.. in other games.    P3D seems to have a software bottleneck somewhere and I want to find it and destroy it!

 

 

How does this:

 

 

manage to out perform this:

 

 

People that tend to claim such awesome stability and smoothness and with good frames in payware seem to always own i7 2600k's.     I don't understand how that older generation chip can be crushing this new generation chip I have.

[dgraham1284 92]

Because in many of my tests the the most taxed out core sometimes never gets beyond 70% used.  Generally, from what I read, if your cores are punched at 100% you just over taxed it and it will now start hurting your GPU's ability to perform because it is having to wait for the CPU to free up cycles to get instructions to and from the system thus you generally see your GPU usage drop.   It is my understanding, on a properly balanced system, the GPU should be more closer to 100% instead of sitting down at a idling 30%.    If this is wrong I'd like clarification.   Supposedly, the GTX 770 is perfectly matched for user with the i7 3930k and it is.. in other games.    P3D seems to have a software bottleneck somewhere and I want to find it and destroy it!

 

 

How does this:

 

 

manage to out perform this:

 

 

People that tend to claim such awesome stability and smoothness and with good frames in payware seem to always own i7 2600k's.     I don't understand how that older generation chip can be crushing this new generation chip I have.

 

 

3930k is a xeon processor. More cores doesn't equal more performance. Higher clock speed is better for gaming since today's software is really coded to handle high core counts and threads. 

[Kuragiman 227]

3930k is a xeon processor. More cores doesn't equal more performance. Higher clock speed is better for gaming since today's software is really coded to handle high core counts and threads. 

 

True but look at the single thread rating.  The 3930k is still superior if you go by that rating.   Hardware boggles the mind sometimes.

[Jazzfan 57]

   If you haven't done so yet, set your fps in P3d to unlimited, turn on hdr, add some cloud shadows, and throw in some terrain, cloud, and aircraft reflections for good measure. That should get your gpu huffing a little bit. To lock your fps, use the software that came with your vid card.(ie; evga - precision X, MSI - Afterburner, etc.) You will need to have good air flow in your pc case.

 

  regards, Jazz

[Kuragiman 227]

   If you haven't done so yet, set your fps in P3d to unlimited, turn on hdr, add some cloud shadows, and throw in some terrain, cloud, and aircraft reflections for good measure. That should get your gpu huffing a little bit. To lock your fps, use the software that came with your vid card.(ie; evga - precision X, MSI - Afterburner, etc.) You will need to have good air flow in your pc case.

 

  regards, Jazz

 

All of that was on except for one thing.   I turned on more shadows and set all their sizes to 80,000 meters.   All objects but vegitation are projecting and receiving shadows.   That put a dent in the GPU.  It's upward close to 100% now.   A small tweak using some NI settings from Steve gave me a little bit more FPS and better image quality.   I think I am good now.   Now to break it all by over clocking the CPU even more.  *_*    It's quite capable of doing 4.6ghz.   I think I'll shut off hyperthreading and push up the GHZ more.   Liquid cooling for the win.

[Jazzfan 57]

+100 for the liquid cooling. My old Phenom II doesn't even break a sweat. Glad to hear your getting a handle on it. From what I have heard from some, is that P3D doesn't show any difference in performance between 4.2 and 4.8 ghz. I would be curious to hear your results, if you decide to try it out.

 

  cheers, Jazz

[Kuragiman 227]

+100 for the liquid cooling. My old Phenom II doesn't even break a sweat. Glad to hear your getting a handle on it. From what I have heard from some, is that P3D doesn't show any difference in performance between 4.2 and 4.8 ghz. I would be curious to hear your results, if you decide to try it out.

 

  cheers, Jazz

 

 

If I get brave and start messing around in the BIOS this weekend I'll let you know.   I can easily OC it using ASUS Suite II in the OS.  I can get it 4.3ghz stable.   4.4 pushes it over the edge and I get BSOD so that is the software threshold for a safe stable OC.  If I want to push past that it's BIOS time, messing with voltages and all that jazz.

[Appliance 51]

Hi,

 

You don't mention whether the GTX 770 is the 2Gb or 4Gb version.  It's long been recognised that higher amounts of video ram allow one to exploit higher AA etc, higher resolutions, more monitors et al. 

 

I am bottlenecked ... running a 4770K through a modest GTX 560Ti Hawk, just 1Gb, and my GPU is often at 100% yet I am locked quite successfully at 30fps with most settings, including shadows, turned to high.  I have selected to run textures at 1024 however, as my tired eyes find it difficult to distinguish the advantages of higher settings in day-to-day flights as opposed to screenshots.  ^_^

To date I've found the best tweak to be the non-use of the frame rate counter.  Works wonders, believe me.  :rolleyes:

[Kuragiman 227]

Hi,

 

You don't mention whether the GTX 770 is the 2Gb or 4Gb version.  It's long been recognised that higher amounts of video ram allow one to exploit higher AA etc, higher resolutions, more monitors et al. 

 

I am bottlenecked ... running a 4770K through a modest GTX 560Ti Hawk, just 1Gb, and my GPU is often at 100% yet I am locked quite successfully at 30fps with most settings, including shadows, turned to high.  I have selected to run textures at 1024 however, as my tired eyes find it difficult to distinguish the advantages of higher settings in day-to-day flights as opposed to screenshots.  ^_^

To date I've found the best tweak to be the non-use of the frame rate counter.  Works wonders, believe me.  :rolleyes:

 

It's the 2 gig version and my eyes are very sharp and when the FPS drops below 24FPS, whether the counter is on or not, my eyes pick it up and translate it into frame lag and it breaks my immersion of the simulation.   I am saving up for a Titan Black 6gig card so that should fix some issues, especially when I fly triple monitor.