777F VAS - Hopeless

[ahuimanu 50]

So I finally redo flightsim again, completely, according to these instructions (http://support.precisionmanuals.com/kb/a87/how-to-uninstall-and-reinstall-fsx.aspx).  Now, I am NOT going with naked Accel 2, that's like going back to the age of stone, but I ONLY install these:

 

Fresh FSX.CFG with only HIGHMEMFIX=1; BP=0

No NVidiaInspector settings yet

REX Texture Direct - with EVERYTHING turned down to the lowest level

GEX - All Regions

UTX - All Regions - traffic turned off, everything turned off that shows "high load" (smaller roads, smaller streams, extrusion bridges, all that Jazz). Exception, I did leave the UTX street/road lights on.

UT2 - 50% airliners; 0% GA

 

These are all a "minimum" beyond which I say - why bother?

 

Here comes the important part:

 

1) NO other aircraft other than PMDG's (MD-11X (all patched up); JS4100 (all patched up); NGX (all patched up); 777X (all patched up)

2) I only fly the Lufthansa livery in the 777F exclusively

3) NO payware airports (I own $$$$$ of these, but I've held back to test)

 

 

Test flight:

 

KMEM - Left at 1am local to EHAM: 8 hour flight

 

Using FSUIPC's VAS monitor:

start of flight: 2000 Mb free (yes, what an improvement since my reinstall)

end of flight: 600 Mb free (WHAT IN THE HECK?)

 

What is DRAINING this VAS?

 

System:

Operating System

Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit SP1

CPU

Intel Core i7 3960X @ 3.30GHz 38 °C (Runs at 3.9 when using FSX)

Sandy Bridge-E 32nm Technology

RAM

16.0GB DDR3 @ 933MHz (9-10-9-28)

Motherboard

ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. P9X79 PRO (LGA2011) 31 °C

Graphics

27EA33 (1920x1080@60Hz)

27EA33 (1920x1080@60Hz)

3071MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 Ti (EVGA) 33 °C

 

Now, I know that having that much memory on a video card in DX9 is going to cost, but good lord!

 

Some FSX settings:

 

Graphics: Target frame rate: 60; Global texture resolution: Very high; Lens flare: 60; Advanced Animations: on; Filtering: anistropic; Anti-aliasing: yes

Aircraft: Global Settings: VERY LOW

Scenery: LOD: Large (should mean 4.5); Mech complexity: 75; Mesh res: 2m; texture res: 7cm; water effects: high 2.x (BP = 0); land detail textures: yes; Scenery complexity: Very dense; Autogen: Normal; Ground scenery shadows: no; Special effects detail: high

Weather: Cloud draw (90mi) <-I think ASN keeps changing this, I try to set it at 60; cloud coverage: max; download winds aloft:yes; disable turbulence: yes; rate weather change: off

Traffic: Airline: off; GA: off; Airport vehicle density: min; road vehicles: 0; ships and ferries: 5% leisure: 0

 

ANYHOW

 

I went to what I consider "bare bones" and did see improvements (I could finish a flight), but I wonder what sort of "world" that this article (http://support.precisionmanuals.com/kb/a108/vas-management-stopping-out-of-memory-oom-errors.aspx) expects that we'd fly in?

 

Honestly? Is the answer: "a patched SP2/Accel with nothing else?"

 

I will admit I have a few settings up there (high water; normal autogen) that can be reduced.

 

ORBX

 

I suspected ORBX products to be the culprit and I have avoided that and all add-on airports at the moment.  I put on GEX/UTX because they have been faithful friends over the years and seemed to have lower memory footprints than ORBX stuff (I'm talking the Global textures and the europe vector stuff).

 

FUTURE STEPS

 

I'm going to turn down the water next, and maybe remove BP=0. But I don't know what to do.  I know that once I start adding the VAST amounts of payware airports I've collected over the years, that this 2000Mb free VAS is going to erode.

 

RTM

I had a trouble-free year with RTM, but nothing but problems since the SPs.  I've reinstalled twice in 2 months and the result is the same.  The exception this time is that I held off on putting anything else other that what I consider essential for a proper circa 2014 visual experience.

 

I will try a flight with all FTX regions disabled and see the difference; BP=0 turned off; and water dialed down.  I'll post those numbers in this thread.

 

I just think there is something wrong (and I am certainly willing to continue to explore that it is on my end).  HOWEVER, I spent a year with everything loaded to the gills (ORBX global stuff, tons of airports, aircraft, all kinds of bells and whistles handing off, and happily flew my RTM 777F all over the world, on 10+ hour legs, and never OOMed.  I did get the ringing bell of FSUIPC here and there, but things stayed within limits.  

 

This is frustrating.

[ddswh1pk0s 8]

Well I only run add on airports and REX global textures and I've never got an OOM. I've never had to tweak anything I just concentrate on flying.

[ahuimanu 50]

I too concentrate on flying, but I was extremely detailed in hopes for further discussion on finding a OOM-free VAS-stable approach to using the 777F..

[ddswh1pk0s 8]

Well I believe the true VAS stable approach to using the 777F would be to use the 777 on Prepar3d when it is released early 2015. But for now if I were you I would just stick to add on airports and forget about UTX and GEX unless you fly VFR and need the landmarks that those sceneries have.

[Boeing or not going 578]

You can't use AI traffic at all, and remove bufferpools section. ASN default vis settings are too high, 150 I think. Go into ASN and adjust vis and cloud settings to less than 100

[ahuimanu 50]

Well I believe the true VAS stable approach to using the 777F would be to use the 777 on Prepar3d when it is released early 2015. But for now if I were you I would just stick to add on airports and forget about UTX and GEX unless you fly VFR and need the landmarks that those sceneries have.

 

Thanks. I guess my problem is that I survived with these fine for about 9 months with no OOMs.  I'll consider toning down more in UTX.

You can't use AI traffic at all, and remove bufferpools section. ASN default vis settings are too high, 150 I think. Go into ASN and adjust vis and cloud settings to less than 100

 

Will try removal of BP.  Will check ASN.  Thanks for tips.

[777simmer 117]

I too concentrate on flying, but I was extremely detailed in hopes for further discussion on finding a OOM-free VAS-stable approach to using the 777F..

Too bad you did not post your VAS experience in one of the threads around about this topic :-(

 

I think if it was all in one or two posts it would be easier to keep track of things.

Probably a wish that will go by unfullfilled just as the "read the manual" kind of discussion.

 

 

Anyway, like you I use UTX and GEX.

Below I have copied/pasted my reply from one of the other VAS threads.

 

Note, this was with SP1!

I have yet to test SP1b but I expect the same VAS use.

 

My VAS stayed stable and low though the whole flight.

The main difference between your flight and mine would be that I used zero/none/nada AI traffic.......so I too suggest you try without that.

(set both FSX AI to zero as well as UTX internally AI traffic to zero if that is a possibility that UTX offers)

 

 

My flght:

I did a from Drzewiecki KJFK to Fly Tampa Vienna at 4x accelerated speed.

 

OPUS FSX was used for real world weather and importing of the enroute winds into the FMC.

I have UTX and GEX worldwide.

No additional addons are installed.

DX9

 

To be able to run Drzewiecki (this was my first test flight with it) I have reduced FSX sliders and UTX settings to my personal minimums.

FSX:

- No AI (everything off)

- scenery complexity and autogen NORMAL

- cloud draw distance 60nm

- things like bloom and shadows are off.

- unchecked HD VC cockpit (I use the 2D popups in a second and third monitor and they stay sharp at all times).

- Other sliders for things like mesh, etc are still at high/max setings.

 

 

UTX:

I opened each region setup tool and turned allmost everything off.

Basically I only left highways, railroads, large water bodys and shorelines and the various landclasses on (so all the small stuf like minor roads, all bridges, moving cars, golfcourses etc is off).

When you fly in FL340 you dont see any of it anyway.

On the STAR you are to busy to look out the window much.

And on final things look good anyway because of the addon airports

Plus GEX tiles are still visible everywhere and they greatly enhance the look when flying low without costing any/much performance (they are said to increase performance even).

 

I realize not everybody would be happy like this, but here comes the big bang!

 

I used that LUA script that Rob Harris wrote to plot VAS used on Google earth along the whole flight.

 

No more than 2.5 GB was used anywhere on that flight!

2.5GB on take off, 2.2GB over the Atlantic and 2.4GB VAS used after landing.

(I have a feeling something in UTX was eating up my VAS because I have had an OOM in KJFK in the past)

 

Stunning good results if you ask me and even room for maybe turning AI on again.

[kjjj11223344 48]

Have you tried DX10? Also, I'd suggest uninstalling absolutely everything and just flying with a default FS and 777; test, and slowly add addons one by one. Like 3 years ago, I had a similar problem with the NGX. Out of the blue, after installing a new livery that was very high quality, I couldn't complete a single flight, as my VAS would rise too much by time the sim loaded the destination airport. It turns out that when I used both the d3d9.dll fps limiter, along with the ENB series mod, there was some sort of memory leak that was not there when using one or the other (I began to use both of these at the time of installing the new livery). It is a very tedious process, especially if you have a lot of addons (I didn't at the time, so I was able to find my problem easily).

 

For comparison's sake, I have bp=0 (along with other tweaks I have thanks to the Bojote tool), fsdreamteam KFLL, kjfk, gsx, Rex extreme, PMDG NGX and PMDG triple 7. I also ASN with above default cloud draw distances and cloud layers. Finally, I use dx10, and I can fly literally wherever I please; I also have extremely high resolution photoreal of the area around KFLL and KMIA that I made (it's around 50-60 or so gb). I can even take off and land multiple times at different locations without restarting my sim. So, I am sure if you take it step-by-step, you'll be able to enjoy a stable sim also.

[troyboy66 66]

What about your windows settings? For istance, I never fly FSX unless I have windows set to 'adjust for best perormance.' You should also disable all running apps in the system configuration too before running FSX.....You seem to have a really nice system and the settings you have shouldn't cause OOM. If you aven't done the above suggestions, youshould try it.

[Ioan92 63]

Have you tried DX10? Also, I'd suggest uninstalling absolutely everything and just flying with a default FS and 777; test, and slowly add addons one by one. Like 3 years ago, I had a similar problem with the NGX. Out of the blue, after installing a new livery that was very high quality, I couldn't complete a single flight, as my VAS would rise too much by time the sim loaded the destination airport. It turns out that when I used both the d3d9.dll fps limiter, along with the ENB series mod, there was some sort of memory leak that was not there when using one or the other (I began to use both of these at the time of installing the new livery). It is a very tedious process, especially if you have a lot of addons (I didn't at the time, so I was able to find my problem easily).

 

For comparison's sake, I have bp=0 (along with other tweaks I have thanks to the Bojote tool), fsdreamteam KFLL, kjfk, gsx, Rex extreme, PMDG NGX and PMDG triple 7. I also ASN with above default cloud draw distances and cloud layers. Finally, I use dx10, and I can fly literally wherever I please; I also have extremely high resolution photoreal of the area around KFLL and KMIA that I made (it's around 50-60 or so gb). I can even take off and land multiple times at different locations without restarting my sim. So, I am sure if you take it step-by-step, you'll be able to enjoy a stable sim also.

 

^^ What he said.

 

I can't complete a flight with the T7 in DX9 but I can in DX10.

 

Set your clouds to 1024, use DXT1 water and lower your ASN draw distances to ~60 and vary between 60 and 75 for visibility. (looks better like that anyway). Then use 8x MSAA + 4x SGAA. The latter is so you don't face horrible lag with SGAA.

 

I did this today and I'm a happy camper.

 

EDIT: The reason why you have such a huge usage at the end of your flight is because DX9 is bad at handling VAS so instead of dynamically being managed as DX10 does.. it just keeps growing until you're out of juice. If you fly from Osaka to Narita over default terrain you will OOM in the T7. That's about 1 hour and a half at most. >.>

 

Seriously just switch to DX10 or use Autosave.

[777simmer 117]

it just keeps growing until you're out of juice. If you fly from Osaka to Narita over default terrain you will OOM in the T7. That's about 1 hour and a half at most. >.>

 

Seriously just switch to DX10 or use Autosave.

Seriously....there is no need to.......and seriously you will not OOM with DX9 if you dont overstuff things.....see my post above........(unless there is something wrong with SP1b that I have not tried yet.)

 

Sure, time is your biggest enemy as fas as VAS concerns, but 2.5GB VAS used max (1.5GB or more free at all times) is far from OOMing......again, see my example above!

 

I know from many DX10 users that it is better at handling VAS.

And I believe them and you.

But it is not like you can't fly the PMDG777 over decent scenery with DX9

My post above prooved this, unless you feel that UTX+GEX+REX+OPUS FSX live weather+Drzwiecki KJFK (dep)+FlyTampa Vienna (arr) are not descent?!

 

Autosave (I asume you mean via FSUIPC) is horrible with PMDG type aircraft because that with totally stuff your CDU with thoussands of saved flights unless you keep deleting them after every flight.

 

Ps.....I wanted to try DX10 actually, but now that DX10 fixer is not available anymore I will stay with DX9.

[Ioan92 63]

Seriously....there is no need to.......and seriously you will not OOM with DX9 if you dont overstuff things.....see my post above........(unless there is something wrong with SP1b that I have not tried yet.)

 

Sure, time is your biggest enemy as fas as VAS concerns, but 2.5GB VAS used max (1.5GB or more free at all times) is far from OOMing......again, see my example above!

 

I know from many DX10 users that it is better at handling VAS.

And I believe them and you.

But it is not like you can't fly the PMDG777 over decent scenery with DX9

My post above prooved this, unless you feel that UTX+GEX+REX+OPUS FSX live weather+Drzwiecki KJFK (dep)+FlyTampa Vienna (arr) are not descent?!

 

Autosave (I asume you mean via FSUIPC) is horrible with PMDG type aircraft because that with totally stuff your CDU with thoussands of saved flights unless you keep deleting them after every flight.

 

Ps.....I wanted to try DX10 actually, but now that DX10 fixer is not available anymore I will stay with DX9.

 

There's nothing horrible about Autosave, just delete your saves at the end of your flight. They go in the panel state folder of said aircraft. Or if you lose track just search "autosave" in the FSX folder and delete everything. A bit annoying, yes but nothing once you get used to it.

 

Why reduce your immersion for a little bit of stability? Just reload with Autosave 100 NM before T/D and will not have anymore issues related to this!

 

I'm also going to disagree with you on the first point. Before I was prompted to look for solutions to this problem, I flew this short flight between Osaka Itami and Narita. The only addons I had back then was Ray Smith ADE files, REX clouds and FTX Global. In this situation, other than the clouds, I cannot see what could possibly cause the OOM that occured each time once I got near the default Narita on finals because Japan is a very dense region. Also, the OOM only occurred with the 777. The NGX, 747 and the rest played nice on this route.

 

So I could drastically lower my immersion for one addon that doesn't play nice or I could just use autosave and fly carefree.

 

I took a moment to look at your computer specs and you have a lot of head room for more eye candy. If you can use autosave, why not try it?

My system is slightly weaker than yours and I've never gotten an OOM with the 747 and NGX while flying DX9. Most of my sliders are full right, except AI, as I don't use it and my water is Low 2x.

[777simmer 117]

There's nothing horrible about Autosave, just delete your saves at the end of your flight. They go in the panel state folder of said aircraft. Or if you lose track just search "autosave" in the FSX folder and delete everything. A bit annoying, yes but nothing once you get used to it.

 

Ok horrible is a bit exaggerated :-)

 

But I have tried autosafe and I kept forgetting to delete all those saved flights.

 

I think there was some problem with that.....dont remember exactly.......maybe frozen flights or slow performance if too many saved flights were present.......or not?

Anyway, I decided to not use autosafe on PMDGs anymore.

 

Autosave 100nm before TOD?

Did not know that was possible........I only remember an every 10min or so option.

That I do like!

How do you do that?

 

But you are not getting my main point.......or ignoring it.

I got 1.5GB free VAS with DX9 and all kinds of addons!!

Sure settings are reduced quite a bit.......but still ok for me.

 

I will up the stakes a bit in a few days and test the same flight again with some AI traffic, maybe some more UTX features...etc and will report results here.

 

 

I do not know what caused the OOM on your Osaka to Narita flight.

Did you take a look with a VAS monitor program or FSUIPC to see how close to OOM you were on that same flight with the 737NGX?

If you had 200mb free with that airplane and then used the 777 for the same flight.......then I am not surprised that you OOMed.

It means you overstuffed things (for DX9).

If you had 800mb free on that flight with the NGX and then tried the 777 and then OOMed..... then there was something seriously wrong!

 

Either way......DX10 might have helped enough for that flight.......but autosafe?

I doubt that.

I have never seen any real test results that stated autosafe reduces VAS by 100mb...or 200mb....or 500mb.....or whatever

I would love to see some results like that. Maybe somebody has a link to a thread about it?

So I could drastically lower my immersion for one addon that doesn't play nice or I could just use autosave and fly carefree.

 

I too have read that autosafe reduced the likelyhood of OOMs.

And if you do OOM then you flight was saved and you could boot right back up into it.

So nice yes.......

 

But I reduced my settings enough to have 15GB free VAS at all times from New York to Europe. And things still look ok.

You want to tell me that if I were to use Autosave that I could have used my previous High FSX/UTX settings and also have 1.5GB free VAS?

 

I dont think so.....

I took a moment to look at your computer specs and you have a lot of head room for more eye candy. If you can use autosave, why not try it?

My system is slightly weaker than yours and I've never gotten an OOM with the 747 and NGX while flying DX9. Most of my sliders are full right, except AI, as I don't use it and my water is Low 2x.

That is where allmost all OOM sufferers go wrong.

 

The quality of a system has nothing to do with OOMs and VAS.

The problem is that FSX is a 32bit old piece of software and as such it can only use 4GB of VAS before you OOM.

(I have a feeling you know that already......so dont take that as a personal attack)

Would I want to show more and nicer scenery?

Sure?

Would I try DX10.......sure but it is off the market.

Do I think autosave can be used to reduce VAS by several 100MB?

Nope.

So best course of action is reducing settings to stay within 4GB VAS.

 

 

Ps, If I have some time then I will try Osaka to Narita with the PMDG777.

I dont have FTX but I think GEX covers Japan as well, and I will use default FSX airports.

[~Craig~ 10]

 

 

If you fly from Osaka to Narita over default terrain you will OOM in the T7.

 

I fly the T7 with a modest system (see below), on DX9 and this is not my experience.

I'll only get an OOM if I am using multiple high end airport addons, and my flight is over about 8 hours.    I definitely wouldn't get an OOM with the above flight.

 

i7 2600k, 8GB DDR3 RAM, ATI 7850 2GB, Win 7 64

[Ioan92 63]

Ok horrible is a bit exaggerated :-)

 

But I have tried autosafe and I kept forgetting to delete all those saved flights.

 

I think there was some problem with that.....dont remember exactly.......maybe frozen flights or slow performance if too many saved flights were present.......or not?

Anyway, I decided to not use autosafe on PMDGs anymore.

 

Autosave 100nm before TOD?

Did not know that was possible........I only remember an every 10min or so option.

That I do like!

How do you do that?

 

But you are not getting my main point.......or ignoring it.

I got 1.5GB free VAS with DX9 and all kinds of addons!!

Sure settings are reduced quite a bit.......but still ok for me.

 

I will up the stakes a bit in a few days and test the same flight again with some AI traffic, maybe some more UTX features...etc and will report results here.

 

 

I do not know what caused the OOM on your Osaka to Narita flight.

Did you take a look with a VAS monitor program or FSUIPC to see how close to OOM you were on that same flight with the 737NGX?

If you had 200mb free with that airplane and then used the 777 for the same flight.......then I am not surprised that you OOMed.

It means you overstuffed things (for DX9).

If you had 800mb free on that flight with the NGX and then tried the 777 and then OOMed..... then there was something seriously wrong!

 

Either way......DX10 might have helped enough for that flight.......but autosafe?

I doubt that.

I have never seen any real test results that stated autosafe reduces VAS by 100mb...or 200mb....or 500mb.....or whatever

I would love to see some results like that. Maybe somebody has a link to a thread about it?

I too have read that autosafe reduced the likelyhood of OOMs.

And if you do OOM then you flight was saved and you could boot right back up into it.

So nice yes.......

 

But I reduced my settings enough to have 15GB free VAS at all times from New York to Europe. And things still look ok.

You want to tell me that if I were to use Autosave that I could have used my previous High FSX/UTX settings and also have 1.5GB free VAS?

 

I dont think so.....

That is where allmost all OOM sufferers go wrong.

 

The quality of a system has nothing to do with OOMs and VAS.

The problem is that FSX is a 32bit old piece of software and as such it can only use 4GB of VAS before you OOM.

(I have a feeling you know that already......so dont take that as a personal attack)

Would I want to show more and nicer scenery?

Sure?

Would I try DX10.......sure but it is off the market.

Do I think autosave can be used to reduce VAS by several 100MB?

Nope.

So best course of action is reducing settings to stay within 4GB VAS.

 

 

Ps, If I have some time then I will try Osaka to Narita with the PMDG777.

I dont have FTX but I think GEX covers Japan as well, and I will use default FSX airports.

 

Boy that's a lot of text to reply to

 

I'd turn on Autosave and let it save each 10 mins until I was 100NM away. Then I'd just reload. This way I'd land with no problems and enough headroom to watch replays of my landing and whatnot. I wish there would be a feature at allows us to save at a certain point, that would be cool.. Not sure how it would be implemented.

 

The OOM on my flight to Narita is caused by the extreme level of scenery most likely. I did monitor VAS when doing that test and it was in the 3 GB range easily. Probably never happened with the NGX because it was not complex enough. Could also be due to the FTX autogen possibly being denser, not sure.

 

It's not really over stuffing if your frames are stable and smooth imo. Just FSX being horrible at managing that access space.

 

Autosave does not reduce VAS, it just allows you to shut down your session and restart, thus resetting your VAS usage. It basically saves your flight at a set interval.

 

Indeed the quality of the system has nothing to do with VAS, but with Autosave enabled you can use the headroom that you are restricting yourself from in fear of OOM and enjoy more eye candy. You may OOM or hear the bell, but at that moment you'd just reload your flight and continue like nothing happened.