777F VAS - Hopeless

[Sam 68]

Have you tried DX10? Also, I'd suggest uninstalling absolutely everything and just flying with a default FS and 777; test, and slowly add addons one by one. Like 3 years ago, I had a similar problem with the NGX. Out of the blue, after installing a new livery that was very high quality, I couldn't complete a single flight, as my VAS would rise too much by time the sim loaded the destination airport. It turns out that when I used both the d3d9.dll fps limiter, along with the ENB series mod, there was some sort of memory leak that was not there when using one or the other (I began to use both of these at the time of installing the new livery). It is a very tedious process, especially if you have a lot of addons (I didn't at the time, so I was able to find my problem easily).

 

For comparison's sake, I have bp=0 (along with other tweaks I have thanks to the Bojote tool), fsdreamteam KFLL, kjfk, gsx, Rex extreme, PMDG NGX and PMDG triple 7. I also ASN with above default cloud draw distances and cloud layers. Finally, I use dx10, and I can fly literally wherever I please; I also have extremely high resolution photoreal of the area around KFLL and KMIA that I made (it's around 50-60 or so gb). I can even take off and land multiple times at different locations without restarting my sim. So, I am sure if you take it step-by-step, you'll be able to enjoy a stable sim also.

Quick comment

Imo, using bojotes FS tweaker it is outdated and most of the fixes causes more problems than solutions

 

Use highmemfix, Wideviewaspect & texture_max_load in the fsx.cfg and in inspector use the PMDG recommended settings which are found here on the forums...

 

Your point about certain addon related memory leaks is spot on though:)

 

OT: nope 77f vas is fine, you are just doing it wrong 'tm' some great tips here on how to track down the error

[777simmer 117]

Boy that's a lot of text to reply to

 

I'd turn on Autosave and let it save each 10 mins until I was 100NM away. Then I'd just reload. This way I'd land with no problems and enough headroom to watch replays of my landing and whatnot. I wish there would be a feature at allows us to save at a certain point, that would be cool.. Not sure how it would be implemented.

 

The OOM on my flight to Narita is caused by the extreme level of scenery most likely. I did monitor VAS when doing that test and it was in the 3 GB range easily. Probably never happened with the NGX because it was not complex enough. Could also be due to the FTX autogen possibly being denser, not sure.

 

It's not really over stuffing if your frames are stable and smooth imo. Just FSX being horrible at managing that access space.

 

Autosave does not reduce VAS, it just allows you to shut down your session and restart, thus resetting your VAS usage. It basically saves your flight at a set interval.

 

Indeed the quality of the system has nothing to do with VAS, but with Autosave enabled you can use the headroom that you are restricting yourself from in fear of OOM and enjoy more eye candy. You may OOM or hear the bell, but at that moment you'd just reload your flight and continue like nothing happened.

Ok, we are actually on the same page as far as autosafe goes then.

 

Sorry about the long post........sometimes I just cant stop myself, lol.

[777simmer 117]

Too bad you did not post your VAS experience in one of the threads around about this topic :-(

 

I think if it was all in one or two posts it would be easier to keep track of things.

Probably a wish that will go by unfullfilled just as the "read the manual" kind of discussion.

 

 

Anyway, like you I use UTX and GEX.

Below I have copied/pasted my reply from one of the other VAS threads.

 

Note, this was with SP1!

I have yet to test SP1b but I expect the same VAS use.

 

My VAS stayed stable and low though the whole flight.

The main difference between your flight and mine would be that I used zero/none/nada AI traffic.......so I too suggest you try without that.

(set both FSX AI to zero as well as UTX internally AI traffic to zero if that is a possibility that UTX offers)

 

 

My flght:

I did a from Drzewiecki KJFK to Fly Tampa Vienna at 4x accelerated speed.

 

OPUS FSX was used for real world weather and importing of the enroute winds into the FMC.

I have UTX and GEX worldwide.

No additional addons are installed.

DX9

 

To be able to run Drzewiecki (this was my first test flight with it) I have reduced FSX sliders and UTX settings to my personal minimums.

FSX:

- No AI (everything off)

- scenery complexity and autogen NORMAL

- cloud draw distance 60nm

- things like bloom and shadows are off.

- unchecked HD VC cockpit (I use the 2D popups in a second and third monitor and they stay sharp at all times).

- Other sliders for things like mesh, etc are still at high/max setings.

 

 

UTX:

I opened each region setup tool and turned allmost everything off.

Basically I only left highways, railroads, large water bodys and shorelines and the various landclasses on (so all the small stuf like minor roads, all bridges, moving cars, golfcourses etc is off).

When you fly in FL340 you dont see any of it anyway.

On the STAR you are to busy to look out the window much.

And on final things look good anyway because of the addon airports

Plus GEX tiles are still visible everywhere and they greatly enhance the look when flying low without costing any/much performance (they are said to increase performance even).

 

I realize not everybody would be happy like this, but here comes the big bang!

 

I used that LUA script that Rob Harris wrote to plot VAS used on Google earth along the whole flight.

 

No more than 2.5 GB was used anywhere on that flight!

2.5GB on take off, 2.2GB over the Atlantic and 2.4GB VAS used after landing.

(I have a feeling something in UTX was eating up my VAS because I have had an OOM in KJFK in the past)

 

Stunning good results if you ask me and even room for maybe turning AI on again.

I did the same exact flight but with SP1b installed this time.

 

The weather was a little bit different (more clouds) but results were almost the same.

2.8GB VAS used in KJFK Drzewicki.

2.3GB VAS used over the Atlantic

2.5GB used after landing in Fly Tampa LOWW

 

So I see no difference between SP1 and SP1b and thus no reason for SP1b to cause more OOM problems.

[kjjj11223344 48]

Quick comment

Imo, using bojotes FS tweaker it is outdated and most of the fixes causes more problems than solutions

 

Use highmemfix, Wideviewaspect & texture_max_load in the fsx.cfg and in inspector use the PMDG recommended settings which are found here on the forums...

 

Your point about certain addon related memory leaks is spot on though:)

 

OT: nope 77f vas is fine, you are just doing it wrong 'tm' some great tips here on how to track down the error

Really? I didn't know that. The bojote tool does wonders for me though (bp=0 is a miracle for my FPS). But then again, such is the nature of FSX that not everything works on all systems.

[Sam 68]

Really? I didn't know that. The bojote tool does wonders for me though (bp=0 is a miracle for my FPS). But then again, such is the nature of FSX that not everything works on all systems.

 

TO be fair, the results does depend on your hardware..

 

Older hardware (pre intel core) has better results using bojote..

 

Try renaming your fsx.cfg, let fsx make an new one, add the few tweaks and follow the inspector settings (if you have an nvidia card)

 

Remember it's all about the smoothness.. so 25 smooth fps is better then 35 with spikes ^^

[kjjj11223344 48]

TO be fair, the results does depend on your hardware..

 

Older hardware (pre intel core) has better results using bojote..

 

Try renaming your fsx.cfg, let fsx make an new one, add the few tweaks and follow the inspector settings (if you have an nvidia card)

 

Remember it's all about the smoothness.. so 25 smooth fps is better then 35 with spikes ^^

Very true, I might try that some time, but I also follow Tab's inspector settings so I don't get spikes thankfully . I used to, before following his guide while only using Bojote, but the fps limiter in inspector, along with the other settings, has eliminated those for me.

[ahuimanu 50]

Thanks for all of the feedback.  I can complete flights now and here are the main reasons why:

 

1) reinstallled everything (for the third time this year)

2) Pilot's Global Ultimate mesh products

3) GET and UTX with quite a bit turned way down

4) REX Tex Direct

5) Just the 777 at first

6) only default airports

 

this worked just fine (KMEM to EHAM)

 

7) slowly added $$$$ of addon airports

8) has to use Scenery Config Editor to limit to source and destination

 

turned settings down lower, etc.

 

CONCLUSION

 

Biggest culprit was Orbx Vector.  Orbx Global Textures were fine, but the vector product, with its extra AFCADs for flattening and perhaps not configurable enough choices for setting detail are what's gone and what I believe that absence is the reason why I can complete 8-12 hour legs where in-cruise VAS remains consistent and I can enjoy the sim again.

 

I used Orbx Global Textures, and even Vector up until summer. I think it is when I put v1.15 of that product onto my machine is when the "fun" began.  I'll just go back to trustworthy GEX and UTX.  At their forums, they claim that Orbx changes too many things in the "guts" of FSX, and I tend to believe them after this experience.

 

Where can I find Tabs' inspector settings?

 

Also, give me a rule-of-thumb on BP?  I have it back to default (no setting specified).

 

Thanks again for feedback.   I have completed a week's work of long haul (one each day) and have not OOM'ed yet.  The high VAS i've seen is landing at Aerosoft's PANC.  However, since I am a Cargo pilot (I only fly the Lufthansa B777F), I've got to visit PANC (have no idea if the real plane does this or not).

 

Lastly, to the person who suggested I NOT start a new thread.  I see the logic and would normally agree, but I always get "read the manual" conclusions.  Of course this is a forum to support the product itself, but often (as is alluded to in the materials from PMDG in the 777 manual), the problem is in the interplay between products.  This is my main hobby, so I've spent WAY too much money on it (always chasing that "as real as it gets" promise).  In cases like mine, I'll have a ton of things I'm trying to throw in, which means I need to balance.

 

LASTLY

 

Sorry, I NEED good Ai traffic or the immersion is ruined (yes, even though the implementation can be frustrating when the AI get near the airport for landing).  I have UT2 back in, but I've toned it down to a much lower traffic level.

 

BOTTOM LINE

 

Yes, the manual is correct, you must find tradeoffs, but my experience is that some products (Orbx) so profoundly change the "guts" that you just can't balance out.  If others have a different experience, perhaps I am missing something.  Being back at GEX/UTX/REX has me in a stable spot as long as I 1) turn things down and 2) disable airports save for origin and destination airports.

 

Thanks again for participating, I'll still be tweaking, etc.  I'm just about to land at OTHH from WSSS, so I'm looking at another successful longhaul.

[vr-pilot 11]

I think it is when I put v1.15 of that product onto my machine is when the "fun" began. I'll just go back to trustworthy GEX and UTX. At their forums, they claim that Orbx changes too many things in the "guts" of FSX, and I tend to believe them after this experience.

 

 

That is interesting. I have exactly the same experience with the Vector v1.15 patch. This (or the Global 1.20 patch) introduced periodoic stutters which vanished after going back to Vector v1.10 or Global v1.10 respectively. (I tried this patch update twice with the same odd result.)

I also have OpenLC Europe, but it runs below UTX EU + USA (both with GEX) as a footprint enlarger for the EU. Works fine.

 

I am a full screen (Nvidia-3D-Vision2) flyer. I also had a lot of FSX crashes in the recent past (almost one per session), which originally used to be more seldom like once every 40 hours.

Right now I am again on BP=0 and UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=0. One or both of them seem to be essential for the prevention of AppCrash problems in my case. Since 15 hours within extreme ASN WX scenarios (spread over 5 sessions) not a single app crash (using the T7F SP1B)...

 

The direct use of BP=0, FPS=0 and external Nvidia VsyncModeFlipInterval=3 (equals 20FPS for me) made me disable FSPS FA (FiberAcellerator) for the time being... Although I had very good FPS results with that App, the FSX crash problem remained until I changed BP and FPS in the FSX.cfg manually to 0.

[777simmer 117]

Thanks for all of the feedback.  I can complete flights now and here are the main reasons why:

 

1) reinstallled everything (for the third time this year)

2) Pilot's Global Ultimate mesh products

3) GET and UTX with quite a bit turned way down

4) REX Tex Direct

5) Just the 777 at first

6) only default airports

 

this worked just fine (KMEM to EHAM)

 

7) slowly added $$$$ of addon airports

8) has to use Scenery Config Editor to limit to source and destination

 

turned settings down lower, etc.

 

CONCLUSION

 

Biggest culprit was Orbx Vector.  Orbx Global Textures were fine, but the vector product, with its extra AFCADs for flattening and perhaps not configurable enough choices for setting detail are what's gone and what I believe that absence is the reason why I can complete 8-12 hour legs where in-cruise VAS remains consistent and I can enjoy the sim again.

 

 

Well done :-)

 

Good find about ORBX vector too........just needs more confirmation from others before it is a fact.......but important find non the less!

[Slayer 190]

Vector adds all kinds of stuff like bridges traffic and tunnels. Most of that stuff isn't there because FSX is old and outdated and they just didn't put it in. The net effect is that it's adding more stuff to render.The product itself is not bad but when you use these features you must  turn autogen down a bit.  50% ai traffic is just too much I don't care what your using.  The most I could ever get out of UT and remain stable is about 30%. 

 

Edit: BTW there is a vector config tool which lets you turn this stuff on and off but if you disable everything then whats the point besides coastlines and roads?

[777simmer 117]

Vector adds all kinds of stuff like bridges traffic and tunnels. Most of that stuff isn't there because FSX is old and outdated and they just didn't put it in. The net effect is that it's adding more stuff to render.The product itself is not bad but when you use these features you must turn autogen down a bit. 50% ai traffic is just too much I don't care what your using. The most I could ever get out of UT and remain stable is about 30%.

 

Edit: BTW there is a vector config tool which lets you turn this stuff on and off but if you disable everything then whats the point besides coastlines and roads?

Ok if Vector stuff is bridges etc, then it makes sence that it clogs up VAS.

 

After I disabled (with the UTX config tool) small bridges and small rivers and all kinds of other stuff that I think I do not need when Flying the 777, I was able to reduce VAS used from close to 4GB to 2.5GB!!

 

The point of turning this stuff off is so that you can fly the PMDG777 without OOM!

The point of turning it on again is so that you can see small rivers and bridges, etc when you fly low and slow, VFR, with a Cessna (or any other low VAS foorprint aircraft)!

[ahuimanu 50]

 

 

Thanks again for participating, I'll still be tweaking, etc.  I'm just about to land at OTHH from WSSS, so I'm looking at another successful longhaul.

 

This flight was almost a bust (biggest differentiating factor - TONS of weather along the way out of WSSS).  As I neared OTHH (Taxi2Gate's work), where FlyTampa's Dubai was NOT on, I was forced to save as FSUIPC's "ding ding ding" kicked in.

 

So, my quest/settings are STILL not fool proof.  

 

I SWEAR I didn't have these many issues prior to any patches to the 777.  

 

Anyhow, I have not tried anything since (a bit disgusted right now).  I suppose I can turn everything down, down, down in order to get a full airline/environment/airport experience.  I have taken almost everything away from UTX, and all of REX is set to as low as she goes.

 

One thing I haven't tried is the low-res cockpit sounds from PMDG.

 

Maybe that is the Holy Grail?

 

I know that all of my add-on airports are NOT created equal, but I have the big names in the business: Aerosoft (and their contractors), FlyTampa, ImagineSim, Taxi2Gate, LatinVFR, FSDreamTeam, FlightBeam, UK2000, PacSim, and many other smaller players.  I want to fly to destinations that are interesting and immersive, flying to stock runways and environments in the sophistication of the 777 just doesn't cut it.

 

So, I am not entirely back to the drawing board, but that last flight drained me STRAIGHT DOWN TO THE BOTTOM of the VAS pool.

 

The quest goes on.

 

Still love the plane, I just need to find the right environment to fly it in.  Stock is NOT that environment - so I tweak, tweak, tweak.  

[vr-pilot 11]

 

 

Right now I am again on BP=0 and UPPER_FRAMERATE_LIMIT=0. One or both of them seem to be essential for the prevention of AppCrash problems in my case. Since 15 hours within extreme ASN WX scenarios (spread over 5 sessions) not a single app crash (using the T7F SP1B)...

Update:

meanwhile over 25 hours (flying extreme scenarios) without a single app crash.

I have almost forgotten how it is to sit in front of a screen that just went black. B)

(This is what my Sony Laptop does, when it comes to the conclusion to quit functioning from within a full screen Nvidia-3D-Vision2 session...) :blink:

[fro2do 10]

I've been doing all the tweaks that you all suggested and its true you do have to bring down all those

parameters to all the addons we have...The only thing I suggest is.. Some one posted it before as hard

as it is, Once in the cockpit do not, I mean do not go and view all of the surroundings, keep the vc cockpit view all the way threw the flight.

Do not be tempted and you will save a lot of mem....I forgot who posted it but it works for me..

I also have all those upgrades just like you guys.

 

Give it a try I know it's hard to do with all the excellent add ons we have but if you plan it right you can get good results.

[ahuimanu 50]

Update:

meanwhile over 25 hours (flying extreme scenarios) without a single app crash.

I have almost forgotten how it is to sit in front of a screen that just went black. B)

(This is what my Sony Laptop does, when it comes to the conclusion to quit functioning from within a full screen Nvidia-3D-Vision2 session...) :blink:

Thanks for posting, but it is a bit off topic. This thread isn't about crashing, it is about running out of VAS and the balance it takes to have great: mesh, global textures, weather, add-on airports AND the B777.

 

I am glad you run tons of flights great, but I am looking for discussion on VAS-related problems, not CTDs and such things.

 

I hope you understand.

 

Thanks.

I've been doing all the tweaks that you all suggested and its true you do have to bring down all those

parameters to all the addons we have...The only thing I suggest is.. Some one posted it before as hard

as it is, Once in the cockpit do not, I mean do not go and view all of the surroundings, keep the vc cockpit view all the way threw the flight.

Do not be tempted and you will save a lot of mem....I forgot who posted it but it works for me..

I also have all those upgrades just like you guys.

 

Give it a try I know it's hard to do with all the excellent add ons we have but if you plan it right you can get good results.

 

I know that, but it is just misery for me.  Old habits die hard. We were able to go years and years and years with an ability to go outside and admire the plane in its surroundings.  

 

DX10 fixer just came back out, so I'm gonna go down that Rabbit hole now as many SWEAR that it was their HOLY GRAIL.