No Anchorage ARRs/DEPs even after scenery update

[ojiito 0]

Hi all,

 

I know about the errors that come from the discrepancy between later FMC databases and the earlier default nav info, but I just

installed the latest update for Aerosoft's Anchorage X, which changes rwy 14 to rwy 15, and supposedly the ILS as well.  I did this

because the FMC had an error alert for no runway 15 and would show no info for ANC.  After the scenery update the FMC is still not showing

any SIDs, STARS, or runways, even though the info on the FSX map view shows the new numbers so I assumed all the relevant AFCAD stuff was changed.

 

I've had to manually enter the nav info for Kai Tak, but there has to be a better way.  What should be my next step to get ANC to show up in the FMC?

Thanks very much...

 

 

Alex Viechec

 

 

I must say, the PMDG products are absolutely amazing, and I don't think I can ever go back to 'light' aircraft models.  I am fully hooked.

[JRBarrett 3,070]

What is the date of the FMS Nav Data? The FMS, so far as I know, does not rely on FSX's internal runway database, (which indeed would have been wrong for present-day PANC before you installed the Aerosoft airport add-on).

 

The 777 comes by default with a late 2013 AIRAC database, which should have reflected the new runway numbers at Anchorage. Have you installed any older PMDG aircraft since you installed the 777? All PMDG airliners use a common database, so if (for example) you installed the 747-400 after the 777, it may have rolled your database back several years - to 2008 or 2009 - whatever was the current AIRAC at the time the 747 was released.

 

If you do update your PMDG database to the latest versions using Navigraph or Aerosoft AIRACs, then I'm not sure why you would be having the problem. Current SIDS and STARS for a given airport don't rely on the internal FSX Nav Data in any case, so those should be present in your FMS, even if the runways are not updated by a newer freeware or payware AFCAD.

[ojiito 0]

Thanks Jim,

 

Although I've had the 747 and 737 for a while, I just installed the 777 (200&300) within the last couple weeks so it's the latest one.  I thought the scenery update would take

care of it by matching the runways with those in the FMC database.  It seems like that's what should have happened, but something's not meshing.  I completely understand

why I would have this problem at, say, Seattle, which has gotten a new runway since FSX came out, and I haven't updated that scenery to match the newer databases.  This

is also a major reason I would not pay for nav updates, most of the FSX are frozen in time while the real data is always changing, and you would end up with this sort of error

a lot.  Anyway, maybe the Aerosoft update doesn't complete some critical piece of data, hoping someone knows.  Otherwise I'll try to go in and change the database manually.

 

 

Alex V.

I think the SIDs/STARs wouldn't show up because they are actually linked to the runways.  If you want to fly the YESKA2 arrival to rwy 14, but it's actually 15 now,

that star won't show up because that runway doesn't exist anymore, and the procedures even get renamed (usually by one number).  So it'd be the YESKA3 to 15.

At least I think that's how it works, could be wrong, it's been a while since I've been in the real system, but would make sense why the FMC isn't giving me the procedures.

 

 

Alex V.

[downscc 1,327]

 

 

a major reason I would not pay for nav updates, most of the FSX are frozen in time while the real data is always changing, and you would end up with this sort of error a lot.

 

I don't agree. Runway number changes are a trivial problem. For example a change from 14 to 15 changes nothing but the lettering on the runway, it is physically the same runway at the same location with the same true bearing. An update to the magvar.bgl file is recommended (see pinned post in general section).  A STAR for runway 15 will still lead you to the old runway 14 or the new runway 15 if you have a scenery update, there is no interaction between scenery and FMS. Simply select the procedure in the FMS for 15 and land at FSX 14, for example KROTO2.15. It works.

 

What does change are terminal procedures, admended and new approaches, revised STARs and SIDS and new fixes; none of which will appear in FSX without a scenery add-on that includes facilites and fixes.  There is no reason not to keep navdata up to date unless the annual costs are beyond your budget.

 

Finally, the FMS is aware of runways from navdata not FSX scenery updated or not... current PANC navdata has a runway 15.

[ubersu 78]

You need to run makerwys.exe in the main FSX directory. Then go into the FSX\PMDG\NavData and remove the arpt_rwy.dat file. Then bring up FSX and load the T7.  You should now be able to see the data. I've seen this happen when the file data doesn't match what's in the sim.  Running makerwys and forcing a rebuild of that file has worked every time.

 

DJ

[JRBarrett 3,070]

Thanks Jim,

 

Although I've had the 747 and 737 for a while, I just installed the 777 (200&300) within the last couple weeks so it's the latest one. I thought the scenery update would take

care of it by matching the runways with those in the FMC database. It seems like that's what should have happened, but something's not meshing. I completely understand

why I would have this problem at, say, Seattle, which has gotten a new runway since FSX came out, and I haven't updated that scenery to match the newer databases. This

is also a major reason I would not pay for nav updates, most of the FSX are frozen in time while the real data is always changing, and you would end up with this sort of error

a lot. Anyway, maybe the Aerosoft update doesn't complete some critical piece of data, hoping someone knows. Otherwise I'll try to go in and change the database manually.

 

 

Alex V.

It's definitely a problem with the PMDG Nav database. The approach procedures in the FMS come only from the updateable AIRAC database - they do not read or access the FSX built-in Nav data at all. In other words, installing an updated airport scenery will not change the information in the FMS. If your FMS STARS and approaches are referencing runway 14 at Anchorage instead of runway 15, then for whatever reason your PMDG navdata is older than late 2011- early 2012, which is when the runway changed.

 

When you load your 777, and bring up the FMS, it should initially show the IDENT page, which will show the current dates of the active Nav data. It WILL show that the data is out-of-date, since you have not updated the data since purchasing the 777, but the important thing to look for is the start and end dates of the loaded Nav Data. It should show a cycle from August or September of 2013, which is when the 777 was first released. If it shows an earlier date than that, then the only solution is to either re-install the 777, or purchase a 1-time Nav update from Navigraph or Aerosoft.

 

If the 777 Nav Ident pages DOES show the correct date, then perhaps the airport-specific Nav data file did not properly update when you installed the 777. On your FS computer, there should be a folder in your main FSX directory called PMDG, and in that folder will be a sub folder call NavData. Might want to check the time/date stamps on the files in the NavData folder.

 

Again, if you install an older PMDG product (737NG, MD-11 or 747) AFTER installing the 777, it will roll your nav data back to a much earlier cycle.

You need to run makerwys.exe in the main FSX directory. Then go into the FSX\PMDG\NavData and remove the arpt_rwy.dat file. Then bring up FSX and load the T7. You should now be able to see the data. I've seen this happen when the file data doesn't match what's in the sim. Running makerwys and forcing a rebuild of that file has worked every time.

 

DJ

I could be wrong, but I thought that the files produced by makerwys.exe are used ONLY by add ons like the RAASPRO audio runway advisory system, and by RadarContact. The runway and approach info in the FMS should come only from the Navigraph or Aerosoft AIRAC files located in PMDG\NavData.

 

Not running makerwys.exe after an airport scenery update might affect the operation of the RAAS system in the 777 if the user has chosen the option to activate it, but it should have no effect on the FMS runway or approach data.

[ojiito 0]

Interesting, Mr. Downs.  I mostly agree with what you said, I guess I was assuming my issue was caused by the runway not matching the data, but maybe it's more

likely that it's a meta-problem, like Aerosoft's data or format or something just isnt' there.  Who knows.  I am learning more and more of FSX's subtleties all the time,

and it seems like each one produces a tree of new questions...  By the time I think I'm getting it figured out, maybe a new sim will overtake it and then we'll all be back

at square one.

 

Upon a little more investigation, I get the same kind of FMC runway errors with any other airport that's had runway changes in the last 5 or 8 years or so, such as SEA, IAD,

FAI, and some others.  In each case I get no arrivals or departures to choose from.  This is the case with the 737NGX as well, so points to the PMDG side of things.

 

DJ thanks, it sounds like more along the lines of what Jim said, seems to be a problem on a basic level.  I have to figure out if the FMC is looking for 14 or 15 at ANC.

I installed the update because the old version of Anchorage X had runway 14 and I was getting an error message about rwy 15 N/A.  Now 15 is there, but same message.

Jim I will check out the stuff you suggested, but I have a hard time believing that I would have to buy a nav data update to use any of these airports' sids & stars.

 

Alex V.

[Dave_YVR 972]

 It sounds like an error in your NavData somewhere as it shouldn't matter what scenery you have for PANC, the FMS doesn't read data from the airport scenery.

[downscc 1,327]

Current navdata has runway 15 as well as all other runways with current numbers, and I have flown the 77L into PANC Rnw 15... so again, what is the error?  Do not select runway on route page 1, instead select runway on the ARRIVAL page where you select STAR and APPROACH. Also again, the PMDG aircraft knows nothing of FSX scenery (other than facilities like radios)... even the runway that shows on the ND is from navdata not from FSX. Specifically, wpNavAPT.txt file in the navdata folder and the PANC.txt sidstar file.

[ojiito 0]

The error is this:  On the ROUTE page, I put in as an example KIAH to PANC.  Right away when I hit Enter I get this FMC message:

 

         PANC ERR: 15 RWY N/A

 

But I tried it with other airports that I know have had either runway re-numberings or actual runway additions, such as Seattle and O'Hare

and Dulles.  To see if there was a difference, SEA and ORD are stock default airports on my system, ANC and IAD are addons.

They all got similar errors:

 

KSEA ERR: 16R RWY N/A

KORD ERR: 09L RWY N/A   etc......    it accepts the destination airport, but on the ARR DEP page it shows no sids or stars or runway options.

 

I did not put a runway on the Route page.

 

The 737NGX FMC does the same thing, but the Airbus X and Majestic Dash 8 work fine.

 

I peaked in the NavData files in the PMDG folder, and from what I could see it looks like the data is there correctly, for the airports I was using

here, with arrs and deps and waypoints and instructions and everything. 

 

I know what you mean about the PMDGs not knowing about the nav info from FSX, being independent from it, but something is making it do this.

Does PMDG themselves give help on things like this? 

[JRBarrett 3,070]

The error is this: On the ROUTE page, I put in as an example KIAH to PANC. Right away when I hit Enter I get this FMC message:

 

PANC ERR: 15 RWY N/A

 

But I tried it with other airports that I know have had either runway re-numberings or actual runway additions, such as Seattle and O'Hare

and Dulles. To see if there was a difference, SEA and ORD are stock default airports on my system, ANC and IAD are addons.

They all got similar errors:

 

KSEA ERR: 16R RWY N/A

KORD ERR: 09L RWY N/A etc...... it accepts the destination airport, but on the ARR DEP page it shows no sids or stars or runway options.

 

I did not put a runway on the Route page.

 

The 737NGX FMC does the same thing, but the Airbus X and Majestic Dash 8 work fine.

 

I peaked in the NavData files in the PMDG folder, and from what I could see it looks like the data is there correctly, for the airports I was using

here, with arrs and deps and waypoints and instructions and everything.

 

I know what you mean about the PMDGs not knowing about the nav info from FSX, being independent from it, but something is making it do this.

Does PMDG themselves give help on things like this?

What is the Nav Data effective date range (beginning and end dates) that shows on the IDENT page of the FMS of your PMDG aircraft when you first load the aircraft in FSX? It should be the very first FMS page that appears when you access the FMS for the first time. It is vital that you check this date, and post it here for us to help you resolve this problem.

 

All the symptoms you are describing points to the fact that the PMDG Nav data is years out of date - which would be most likely caused by installing or activating the 747 or MD-11 AFTER the 777 was installed ... or, by not answering "yes" to the option to install the latest Nav Data when you first installed the 777.

 

Again, please check the Nav Data effective dates in the PMDG FMS, and let us know what the date is...

[ojiito 0]

Thanks Jim.  Nav Data exactly as it appears on the FMC:  AIRAC-1309, AUG22SEP18/13.   

 

747 was installed about four months ago, 737 a few weeks ago, 777 was last.  I think the problem is acting more like a new FMC database

and old FSX database.  Looking at the files in the NavData folder, the database I have seems to have the new runways at the airports that

actually have them.  I have tried the option 'Correct LOC CRS to FSX' on and off, just to see.

 

 

Alex V.

[JRBarrett 3,070]

Thanks Jim. Nav Data exactly as it appears on the FMC: AIRAC-1309, AUG22SEP18/13.

 

747 was installed about four months ago, 737 a few weeks ago, 777 was last. I think the problem is acting more like a new FMC database

and old FSX database. Looking at the files in the NavData folder, the database I have seems to have the new runways at the airports that

actually have them. I have tried the option 'Correct LOC CRS to FSX' on and off, just to see.

 

 

Alex V.

Yep, the dates are correct for the nav data current for the 777. If the PANC STARS and runways in the FMS reference runway 15/33 at Anchorage, then it means your Nav data is indeed 13-09. In the case of the runway 15 ILS at PANC, this won't matter, because the actual FSX runway is in the same location, and the localizer is the same frequency - it's only that the real-world runway number has changed from 14 to 15.

 

Seattle would be a different matter, since the 13-09 database will reference the new runway that does not even exist in default FSX.

 

BUT! If your PMDG STARS and approaches at PANC reference runway 14 (rather than 15), then somehow, you do have old Nav Data mixed in the PMDG\Navdata folder - even though the FMS IDENT page does show the newer cycle. At the very least, the apt.dat file would be an older one.

 

If this is the case, your best bet would be to update your Nav Data using Navigraph or Aerosoft. A single update is not very expensive, and you can use a one-time update for all add-ons you may own - not just PMDG. It would be the best way to insure that every file in your PMDG\Navdata folder is up-to-date.

 

Just want to re-emphasize that PMDG aircraft do NOT rely on the FSX default Nav Data for SIDS, STARS, enroute waypoints or airways. The FSX Nav Data is used only for the frequencies and positions of VORs, NDBs, Marker Beacons and ILS localizers. There is a web site that will allow you to download files to update the default FSX VORs and NDBs to bring them current to the present day.

 

Updating airport ILS localizers (for those airports where the old FSX data is different than the current r/w ILS) is not so cut-and-dried, as they can only be corrected one airport at a time by installing updated AFCAD files, or a complete airport "makeover" like the many payware airports on the market.

[srcooke 52]

Posted by Ryan on the Navigraph forum:

 

The APRT_RWY.dat file is our cache of runway info - it should generate a new file if the airplane detects a change of navdata, but if for whatever reason it doesn't, just delete the file and it'll regenerate it on the next load of the airplane.

 

 

Running MakeRwys.exe as suggested by DJ will trigger the rebuild also, with the benefit of having RAAS updated also.

[pcubine 143]

installed the latest update for Aerosoft's Anchorage X, which changes rwy 14 to rwy 15

Do you mean you installed Aerosoft's PANC in FSX or installed an update to Aerosoft's PANC.