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Could I fly a real Boeing 737-800?

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I'm wondering: what was the last car you drove where you had to properly account for inertia, steer with your feet, and control the speed with your hands? (No, cruise control doesn't count.)

 

Terribly sorry to burst your bubble, but this sounds like OCSS to me (OverConfident Simmer Syndrome).

This whole discussion is part of why Simmers aren't exactly "liked" with most professional pilots. When guys with pretty much zero experience try to come and tell you how to do your job, you can't really take them serious. Being a bit more humble might actually help us, not push us back.

I got my PPL before I got my drivers license. When I first drove a car I thought that steering it would be a lot easier if I could do it with my feet. Lol

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That only adds to my point, really.

The reason you found that, was because you were used to doing it that way. Most simmers don't have a clue what to expect.

The equipment we use (barring a few exceptions, of course) doesn't give the correct feeling.

Once you get in the actual cockpit, and not the virtual one, it'll be a completely different feeling.

Sure, you might be able to get it down after a few tries, but the scenario we're talking about does not include "a few tries".

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Actually, there are many real pilots that say simulator training is one of the best way to improve much needed skills that can't be done in the seat of real aircraft because of cost. However, if you ever get the chance to take your knowledge of learning the NGX and then go pay to fly in a real simulator you Might surprise yourself.

 

I have been lucky enough in my lifetime to log about 25 hours in a Boeing 737-800NG Level D fitted with MOOG 6DOF electrical Motion System and EP1000 Visual Systems.

 

However, I agree with everyone here, the hard truth is no, a simmer with no real flight experience could not fly a real 737.

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Actually, there are many real pilots that say simulator training is one of the best way to improve much needed skills that can't be done in the seat of real aircraft because of cost.

In that case, they're not exactly talking about the kind of simulator we use.

Purely from a professional standpoint, the NGX could be useful for procedure training, but that's about it, really.

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Here's how I (an avid flight sim enthusiast and non-pilot) look at it:  If I were on an airplane and one of the flight attendants asked "does anyone here know how to fly an airplane" and nobody else raised their hand, I would offer to help explaining that I while I am a flight sim enthusiast only I do know my way around a cockpit and could assist the PIC to reduce workload if and only if said PIC thought I could be more help than hindrance.

 

On the outside chance they didn't laugh in my face and order me back to my seat, I'd only do what I'm asked when I'm asked and would keep my mouth shut and hands in my lap between instructions.

 

That being said, I doubt any pilot would accept the risk of having a non-pilot in the cockpit.

 

As for just jumping aboard a "cold and dark" plane and doing a full flight on my own?  NO WAY.


Richard P. Kelly

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Well,

 

I started piloting at the age of 16, and still do :-)  But I never flew anything else, as a PIC, than gliders.

 

One day, some years ago, during a long hiatus from RL flying that put me closer to MSFS ( fs9 by that time ) I was completely dedicated to an excellent airbus add-on by Phoenix Simulation Software, and I received an invitation to "fly" TAP's ( the Airline of Portugal ) Airbus LevelD sim at their training center, just a few hundred meters from my office.

 

During a whole hour ( a one in a lifetime experience ... ) I started with cockpit prep brief, then engine start and taxi. I asked for severe weather at LPPT, took off from rw 21, and headed to LPMA.

 

Taxiing was already a great experience with the excellent Lisbon Airport graphics in the sim, but taking off and initial climb under real bad weather, was ... WHOW!!!!!

 

After skipping to LPMA I asked for the visual app to rw 05, which I performed flawlessly. The chief instructor who was with me then asked if I wanted to land with limiting weather conditions at Madeira rw 05, which I promptly accepted, and performed again without big difficulty.

 

Was it because I flew gliders for many years before that, even though I had been away from RL flying for more than 2 years by that time?  Was it because of Aerowinx PS1, fs9 and PSS's Airbus?

 

Probably a mix of it all.

 

I think you could actually fly a 737 NGX. Yes the sensorial aspects of flying an aircraft differ even from the full LevelD sim to reality, but they actually become even easier to manage, with the main factor then, in such a situation, being the stress you would be in ....

 

I can only compare simulated flight with the real thing in as far as simulators like Condor or SW go for the simulation of glider flying. I can tell you that the RW counterparts I have flown of the modeled gliders in, for instance, Condor Soaring, are a lot easier to fly IRL... It's very easy, and extremely rewarding to fly a good glider ( not necessarily a modern one ) IRL, compared to flying it in a sim.... 


Main Simulation Rig:

Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti, 1 TB & 500 GB M.2 nvme drives, Win11.

Glider pilot since October 1980...

Avid simmer since 1992...

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You can fly in some small plane wothout any training when you buy a flight from some give-a-gift company. In UK such pleasure costs about 180 pounds for 1 hour flight. After a briefing you will taxi, take-off and fly in small, one engine plane. of course all the time with instructor on board and this instructor of course will land. This is only chance to be a pilot (only for just one hour, but still a pilot) in real life without serious training, exams and spent a lot of money.

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I like to believe if I'm on a plane, and both the pilots are by some reasons knocked out, I would be able to at least program the FMC with an arrival STAR and runway, enter the course and ILS frequency on both COMs and carefully watch the speed at we automatically descent toward the glide path. Then, just before landing I would deactivate autopilot, then auto throttle and land it beautifully, with roaring applause from my fellow passengers. Well, at least I was their only hope..


38.jpg

Brynjar Mauseth 

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I'm wondering: what was the last car you drove where you had to properly account for inertia, steer with your feet, and control the speed with your hands? (No, cruise control doesn't count.)

 

 

Well, I'm quite sure anyone who owns a proper driving game &  driving wheel and pedals can drive a real life car on an empty road without any problems. Similarly anyone who has practiced with FS pedals & some kind of a throttle could taxi a C172 on a big airport with wide taxiways. 

 

 

 

Taxing C172 is nothing like driving a car. Not even close. 

 

Sure, it's different, however not anything that one couldn't learn in about 5 minutes or so. After all you just need to steer your front wheel & control the power and brakes. Shouldn't be any hard on a big airport with taxiways that can handle a 737. 

 

I really can't see how I couldn't possibly make a survivable landing with a C172 on a runway of a major international airport in ideal weather conditions & perfectly functioning aircraft.  

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The scenario we are talking about is of course that in which both pilots had fish.

 

Well, in that case, if it is a Boeing, I would step up, enter the flight deck, and LNAV-VNAV it until final approach, after which: LAND3. My experience is mainly iwth PS-1 and now PSX, so my reference is a -400.

 

Manual landing? I wouldn't be so sure: a lot of mass, a lot of speed, much more than your average car. I wouldn't bet on it.

 

An Airbus? OMG.... THAT would be grim: I wouldn't know what to expect and would be afraid of touching anything and go belly-up.

 

My "real" experience is on a Level-D md-80 simulator: in that case we did multiple circuits (three hours) and everything went very well with manual control; I guess the psycological strain, knowing that you only have ONE chance, would make things a tad more difficult tho.

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I have flown the 737 since the PMDG legacy series.. I like to get myself in depth with systems and procedures, and I have quite a different opinion.

 

Could I manually land it with an instructor on my side in fair weather? I believe so. Will I ever know? probably not

 

Could I do it if I had to do it in an emergency situation with ILS CAT III - Yes I would reckon...

 

After many years of simming - and talk about becoming an pilot, (cant cause of my finances -.-) my girlfriend finally gave me a 1 hour lesson which was performed in an piper warrior - which I never had flown.. So the instructor set things up, we checked everything together and he asked for clearance, and then I taxied the plane to the holding position before the runway..

 

For a moment it was hard to control it, cause I never had used rudder pedals or anything, so I needed to get used to how much deflection there was needed for turning.. but after that keeping center was not a problem..

 

We do our final checks, tell the controller we are ready, and taxi into position - again me as PIC..

 

So we set thrust, and airspeed builds - my body was full of excitement, finally he called rotate and I did..

The instructor got on the controls for me to take the nose down to counter the ground effect, and that was it..(Wouldn't be a problem in the NG ;)) Got the plane in trim and had 1 hour of jolly time at 1200 ft, before finally approaching the runway again (quite a fair crosswind, cannot remember what the wind was its 5 months ago) So im a bit high and fast on final, and the instructor wants speed of so we can get in proper config, I take nose up we drop some speed, and then I just catch back on to the glidepath..

 

I pretty much nail the landing - and gets kudos for it..

 

I taxi back to parking, we shut down and that was my hour as a pilot.. unfortunately probaly my only real hour as pilot ever..

 

Just my contribution..

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Just to thow gas on the fire, if you get proficient on the computer with good controls, you might do better than you think in the real bird.  I was priviledged to fly the United 777 simulator at the Denver AVSIM show a while (a long while...) back.  I'm not a pilot.  I have three hours in a Cessna 172 doing "discovery flights."   But I was able to a) land the plane succesfully three times manually (not just 400 agl...), once in a 20 knot cross wind, take off succesfully and also managed to get the plane out of a windshear...

 

It was all pretty darned exciting...

 

Colin

Seattle

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I do believe a sim pilot would make an excellent student pilot. If one pilot was out and you were filling in, you could manage easily with adult supervision. Would be like the days when I would fly with a senior rated officer. These guys were pilots who rarely flew. They could operate and fly with me working the FMC and pointing out things to fix here and there. I would also talk them through the takeoff and landings. A sort of prebrief as we went along.

 

I would give a good procedural sim pilot a good 65 to 75 percent chance of pulling it off un-assisted.

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However, what I will say about the 777 is it is unbelievably easy to fly and forgiving...it goes where you point it without fuss, bother etc. 

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Really good stuff in this article. In particular the post from G550Flyer. 

 

I've been in several airliner cockpits and I think the key is to know where the "groups" are. Pneumatics are usually all in one spot as are the hydraulics and the same principle applies to almost every other system. For this example, you've simmed on the NGX ad nauseum, you'd know in your mind where the switches should be, but I think most of us would second guess ourselves when we actually get the feel of the buttons...  (For example, the raised buttons on the top of the landing lights, the ridges on some aircraft's hydraulic switches, the lifting up of the flap handle before selecting a flap setting, etc...)

 

Taxiing? I've never taxiied a large aircraft but I'm not sure how long it would take me to get used to the tiller. Plus, there are different cockpit references (usually the window frames of the cockpit) that I probably do not know well enough to avoid damage to the engines and the landing gear. (Not to mention any personnel in the area) I will disagree that taxiing a small aircraft would result in total failure by a new pilot. It may not be pretty, but I think anyone can taxi a small aircraft using the rudders. It is true that each pane can feel different, however the principal remains the same. Yes the speed management, breaking, and precise steering are horrid, but as you do it more, things get markedly better.

 

Flying? In a sim, even one that supports turbulence, you just cannot replicate the forces moving you around. Initial climb out at 15 to 18 degrees looks like the top of a roller coaster. From my experiences, looking out the window and seeing no ground reference while you feel the wind push you is a very uncomfortable feel until you get used to it.I believe most simmers who practice manual landings can salvage an approach and landing. The main problem (again in my opinion) is outside references. The mental "picture" of what a good landing (or good approach) should look and feel like cannot be achieved in just sim operations.

 

If you have been an avid simmer, IMO, you'd have a great chance of being a complimentary crew member to the PF. If you are tasked to fly, then I'd expect hardcore simmers to get us on the ground at the expense of noticeable aircraft damage.


"I am the Master of the Fist!" -Akuma
 

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