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Schnell13

727 Updated

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While In the process of transferring things to a new computer, I re-installed the CS B727, and found to  my surprise it had been updated in June of 2014. (727-100, 727-200 Freighter-the whole thing).  I hadn't used it for some time so am still getting re-acquainted, but performance seems to be good. At least you don't have to rework the flight dynamics to get to altitude. Just in the preliminary stage of checking it out for handling etc., so no real evaluation yet.

 

However, I still can't find  any TAT (Dynamic, or "Total" air impact temperature) gauge in the update, and this is required to use the performance charts.

 

Anybody know of a simple TAT gauge that can be added (just the gauge, without a bunch of other stuff)?

 

I  know somebody designed such a gauge a couple of years ago, but someone else folded it into a complicated multi-purpose mod involving new wave files, flight dynamics changes, and new visual displays and  I think the designer of the gauge just took it off the internet.

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I think the 727 is still on 2.4 which is a tad bit older than June 2014 but re: your TAT gauge, it's part of the Michael2 mod from here: http://www.captainsim.org/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1296889437 The zip is still online and the gauge resides in a separate folder, so you can install it exclusively if needed.

 

Other mods and fixes can be found here: http://captainsim.org/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1319547655#4

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For a second there I thought they updated the 727.  Having said that the mods CoolP lists work great !

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CoolP;

 

First, you are right on the update of course. Version 2.4 is more than a tad earlier than June 2014. June 2014 was the last time my original purchase source updated it. Seems they are a bit slow on updating what they sell.

 

Also there is still an  old posting around that gives a wrong update link, and that's what I was trying to use.

 

On the TAT gauge-Followed the instructions to the letter (I think), and got the TAT/%MAC installed. However, the autopilot pop-up that it is supposed to appear under then disappears. Need to find a way to have both, the real autopilot location makes it almost impossible to use in flight.

 

Thanks for the help-I haven't checked out the other site you suggested yet, but will go there next.

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Haha, must saw I was excited too after reading the statement about a current revision. I thought I might have missed that long awaited update to 2.5. But.. well. I guess we all agree that a 2014 treatment to an iconic plane like the 727 would be awesome.

 

However, the autopilot pop-up that it is supposed to appear under then disappears.

 

Feel free to post the panel entry. I assume that it's just a mishap on the window size or something which prevents your now larger setup (AP plus TAT gauge) to show up correctly.

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[window03]

Background_color=0, 0, 0

size_mm=427,130

position2

visible=0

ident=10005

gauge00=Captain_sim.p721,p12!12_001_ap,0, 0, 427, 100

gauge01=TAT!TAT, 140, 106, 220, 22

 

I think I got all of that right-had to hand copy it because it would not copy/paste.That is what the readme file specifies but if I use it, I get the TAT etc., but the autopilot goes away

 

I've tried increasing the window size, but no help.

 

The 427,130 (size_mm) was originally 427,106 in the unaltered file


Correction; position2 should read position=2. I did copy/paste with the working file, so it went into the panel.cfg correctly.

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I am mostly talking to myself here, but this is what I have checked out so far and the results.

 

1.   Installing the TAT/%MAC gauge independently on the 727-100 Non-Freighter version works as advertised. You get the gauge and retain the autopilot.

 

2.   Do the same thing on either the 727-100 or 727-200 Freighters and you get the gauge but lose the autopilot pop-up.

 

3.  The Freighter model is the only 727-200 I have or want, so I can't check it out on the passenger 727-200's.

 

 I intended to install the rest of the Michael2 mod on my 727-200 freighter, but apparently there is something weird about the freighters and I am hesitant to do anything else to it.

 

Anyone got any ideas how to make the TAT gauge installation work with the freighters? I have tried enlarging the window, but that seemed to have no effect.

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(Still Talking to myself, but found the problem and it was me)

 

I was blindly copying the new [window03]  exactly as it was shown in the gauge installation instructions. When I finally stopped and read it, it was obvious that this  is intended for use in the installation of the gauges into the 727-100, non-freighter versions only. It will not work on the freighters because the freighters require inclusion of the path to the autopilot gauge. If you use the [ window03] in the gauge  "Readme" in the freighters, the sim cannot find the autopilot gauge after the change.

 

All that was required was to keep the original "gauge00" line that is in the freighter versions and not overwrite it with the line specified in the "Readme" instructions. The same problem may exist with the 727-200 non-freighter versions but I don't have those and cannot check that out.

 

Thanks again for pointing me to the gauge link CoolP.

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Good news that is.  :smile: Seems like relative paths vs absolute paths are the only thing to keep an eye on. Good work on finding the error.

 

Wishing you an always beneficial TAT value. ^_^

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Thanks. Finished  the Michael2 on the -200 Freighter and it seems to be working well.

 

Will take a breather to watch some baseball, then take on the B727-100 PAX and the 100 freighter Mods in a few days.

 

Also changed my mind and decided to get the Passenger 727-200 series while it is still available, so will have to  repeat it all on that series.

 

"Michael2" really did a great job and deserves our thanks-I very probably would have just  given up and un-installed the original released (or maybe "escaped") versions if his mods had not been available.

 

Regards

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Agreed. The plane very much depends on the user's support, namely the one from guys tweaking, fixing and modding things. Later releases got way better in that regard, therefore a 2.5 or 3.0 would be welcome.

 

Have fun watching, flying, modding. :smile:

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Hi Schnell,

I always chime in on 727 talk. I've installed all the mods on CoolP's list. It's a nice Addon once all that's done. I've noticed the with the Micheal2 mods installed, following the trim chart for MAC value, the nose of the plane lifts off veeeery slowly. In talking with Lou, the RW 727 guru in the CS forums, he mentioned the real 727 would virtually lift itself off the runway at Vr if trimmed properly for CG.

EX. MAC value of 36, flaps 5 requires trim of 2.5 according to the charts. If I do this, at proper Vr the plane will just barely make it nose up. I'm thinking I may have done something wrong in my installation of Micheal2, either that or the mod's are inaccurate. EPR seems spot on. There are some areas of conflict with Pauls V-one gauge and the Micheal2 mod. Sure nothings going to be exact and I'm really digging deep here, but it would be nice of you can do a take off with trim by the numbers and see what kind of performance you get at rotation and let me know the results. This 727 with its mods in my favorite add on and I have a usual big names and party favorites in the industry.

CoolP, nice to see you back in the loop again.

Thanks,

BrianG

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Hi Brian

 

I have done several liftoffs with all the variations of both the -100's and  -200's  using the Michael 2 settings, and it may be a little slow. However, I have been using near max Takeoff Weight and not paying much attention to whether it rotates well exactly  on Vr. It settles in fine at the specified climb speeds and EPR's after liftoff though. 

 

I will try some more test flights paying more attention to Vr and let you know the results. It may be a few days though, as I spent most of this weeks spare time on the 727's. I now have to get off Flight Sim and on some domestic work for a while, as the noise level from the spouse is getting pretty high.

 

Regards

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Thank Schnell.

I usually keep it at 125k-130k TOW and following the above parameters,it's slow lifting off. Vr is in the low 120's. Be interesting to here your results. And yes, life and wife come first, then FS.

 

Cheers,

Brian

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Brian,

 

I started using the 727 several years ago, and really enjoy it too.

 

I had sort of worked my way up to the very complex,  almost totally FMS controlled products, then finally got tired of spending so much time setting them up and then just watching them pretty much fly the flights with no other inputs from me. I think it was too much like my "day job" ; I was an Engine Systems Engineer on a rocket launch team at Cape Canaveral for many years.

 

Anyhow. I am now back to the Flight Sim products that require manual control, including tail dragger GA planes.

 

I did get in a couple of takeoff runs in on my Captain Sim  B727-100 at 150,000 pounds, watching the rotation response more closely. Vr was 127.

 

It seems to me that lift off is just as it should be,  but then I have never flown one of course.  I have spent many hours as a passenger on 727's, starting as soon as  they came into airline service, but was usually much more attentive to the landings than the takeoffs. Early on, you seldom found a pilot who could "grease" a landing with that airplane, and I experienced several "3 arrival times" bounced landings.

 

The early 727-s also had a series of something like three (trusting to memory) landings short of the runway with fatalities before they learned it had to be landed "by the book". 

 

Anyhow, I don't think there is anything wrong with your computer or the installation of your Michael2 mods. I can't say it exactly duplicates the real airplane however.

 

Regards

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Brian,

 

I tried to come up with a way of giving you something more definitive.

 

Ran again at 150,000 TOGW, Standard ISA Day, 4 degrees pitch up setting;

 

After starting rotation at Vr of 127, EPR 1.96, got 5 degrees of pitch up in about 3 seconds, 10 degrees in about 6 seconds. At that time I also had an IVSI indication of climb, and from the exterior view, the main gear was about 5 feet above the runway.

 

If you are finding something radically different from that, you might want to check the elevator effective area in aircraft.cfg against what Michael2 specifies. The only other thing I can think of would be your pitch sensitivity setting in the control options could be low.

 

Regards

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Hey Schnell,

I configured my 721 as you did with pretty much same results. I must trim down fairly quickly after take off or I'll get a strong nose up tendency. Seems a bit more lag on take off if flying by #'s with lighter take off weights.

As well, I got tired of all the set up time with the modern airliners and the FMC, only to find the plane fly's itself with little input. Always appreciated the vintage jets. Much more engaging- for me anyway. Thanks for your correspondence.

 

Cheers,

Brian

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The patch 2.5 was released 2 days ago!

 

Info here.

 

 

New features:
- 727-100 Base Pack for Prepar3D released
- Free upgrade to Prepar3D for 727-200 and Freighter Expansion Models available
- FSX Steam Edition compatibility added
- Carousel IV-A Inertial Navigation System (CIVA) added
- V-One - Datacard for Takeoff/Landing with Call-Outs added
- EPR Hold function added
- DME display's functions added (VOR1, VOR2, TAT)
- Winglets on/off animation feature added

Systems:
- Mouse wheel rotation bug for all knobs fixed
- Flight model fixed and improved
- Aircraft holding the ILS and/or GS improved
- Engine EPR calculation fixed and improved
- Fuel system bugs fixed
- Fuel dump system bugs fixed
- Fuel flow improved
- Pressurization system bugs fixed
- GPWS Switch Fixed
- Sudden loss of electric fixed
- Elevator trim sensitivity fixed
- Autopilot hotkeys added
- Autopilot bugs fixed
- Autopilot pitch hold for FSX SP2 version fixed
- Wiskey compass indication fixed
- ADI indication corrected
- MDA light fixed
- Decision height system fixed
- Radio altitude fixed
- NAV/GPS Switch added (marker switch replaced)
- Airspeed Cursor Control added
- Altimeter indication fixed and improved

MISC:
- Flight load/save fixed
- Engine smoke fixed
- Tooltips fixed and improved
- Icons panel improved
- 2D night drawing improved
- Minor memory leaks fixed
- FSX frame rate improved
- Manuals updated

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The patch 2.5 was released 2 days ago!

 

Info here.

 

Shocked but pleasantly surprised.  Looking forward to trying this out.

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It's a bit weird....but Buddies, CS released da patch 2.6. :ph34r:

 

http://www.captainsim.com/products/x727/sp2600.html

 

Changes since patch 2.5

SYSTEMS

- CIVA alignment and Active Sky Next compatibility fixed
- HDG bug fixed
- Flaps gauge fixed

 

MISC

- Product activation on some systems fixed

 

 

In one month we have more patches than in four years :huh:

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Perhaps that got a knack for more retro things than the L1011 all of a sudden :)

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