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vonmar

Maddog MD80 FMC and SIDs STARs

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Maddog MD80 FMC and SIDs STARs

Anyone happen to know if Maddog (Maddog2008) MD80 FMC works with Navigraph's current Navdata cycle.
Actually MADDOG is using PMDG's Navigraph Navdata as far as I can tell. That is what I tried.

For Maddog (FS9) I get e.g. KDTW is Not found in database.

For Maddog (FSX) I get a CTD wnen e.g. selecting KDEN sid or destination KDFW airport.

BTW, I cannot use there forum .... The forum requires pre approval from the developer / administrator before posting .. I have not received a reply for a long time.

 

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Hi, Vaughan. I can try later. What's the route you had running? Just a random KDEN to KDFW with Navigraph 1411?

 

I never used their forum, lol.

 

 

 


Actually MADDOG is using PMDG's Navigraph Navdata as far as I can tell.

Just asking to confirm. The use of the PMDG data requires some manual copy and paste action. Did you perform that? It does not read directly from the PMDG folders, hence my question.

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Hi, Vaughan. I can try later. What's the route you had running? Just a random KDEN to KDFW with Navigraph 1411?

 

I never used their forum, lol.

 

 

 

Just asking to confirm. The use of the PMDG data requires some manual copy and paste action. Did you perform that? It does not read directly from the PMDG folders, hence my question.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Wait ...

I just found a post about filtering the database "radius" based on NMs from an airport.

When I checked it was BLANK so I set it up for KDTW 2500nm radius.

 

I will do another test now .

 

******

I tested Route page

KDEN KDFW

 

I got a sid in for KDEN then tried selecting and arrival for KDFW and CTD.

 

So, still a problem here.

 

 

And I tested FS9 again: KDTW KJFK in route page (no plan)

Then I did a SID ok

but wanted to select a STAR but (DEP/ARR button) that brought up the DEP page again... strange!

*************

 

 

Never got as far as entering a flight plan (FSX or FS9 tests).

 

Yes, I copied / pasted from PMDG.

 

"Just a random KDEN to KDFW with Navigraph 1411"

Correct.

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So I had time to test and can confirm that the sim crashes with a 'maddog.GAU' entry in the Windows event log when I want to select the departures from KDEN.

 

The route entry itself works and the IDENT page also shows a proper AIRAC 1411 being recognized.

 

Now I was trying to resolve the issue by running the cleanup tool (which wasn't needed so far since later PMDG data sets worked out of the box) and this very tool crashes at the KDEN file, so I guess there's something fishy inside it. Note: The tool only crashes with the 'automatically rename waypoints' option being active. Without it, it runs fine and doesn't complain, but the plane still crashes in the sim.

 

Restarting the cleanup tool doesn't help, the KDEN file problem doesn't solve itself unless you remove the KDEN.txt file, which in turn leads to a proper run. So maybe it really is just that one airport, in that one file. How did you find that one out of 6673 items, Vaughan? :P

 

Maybe a user of the Aerosoft file service can chime in and check if his KDEN stuff is mixed up too. We should also check PMDG planes in KDEN then. Edited. I checked, PMDG works at KDEN, with the corresponding ("faulty" for the Maddog) txt file being active.

 

I undertook another test, with the KDEN file deleted and starting at KDFW to KABQ. The Maddog behaved like a good dog. KDEN is broken (for her). :mellow:

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Thanks a lot for testing .. much appreciated.

 

I never used that cleanup tool ... so cannot comment.

 

KDFW also does not work .. I tried an arrival there.

 

I found out about the problems when I did a search .... ended up on the Maddog forum post ....

If you need it I will go find it and post a link here.

 

"remove the KDEN.txt file, which in turn leads to a proper run." .. but you cannot then select DEP or ARR procedures at KDEN  .. correct?

DEP waypoints would be each keyed in off a plate for the SID .... correct?

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Yes, I think with removing the KDEN file, you have to go full manual on the entries. Not sure how well that works out. In theory, it should work fine. Lots of user waypoints.

 

Another approach would be to clean up the KDEN text file, e.g. removing a lot of parts (which might contain the error leading to the crashes) and therefore only leaving the basic data inside. This would avoid a completely unaware FMC and might save some typing (e.g. leave the runways in and the airport position, just remove all procedures).

 

On another occasion, I was wondering how one could argue for a check from Navigraph. But since we are using PMDG data, which is copied over and works (over at PMDG planes), we can't really say "fix KDEN" for us. Tricky thing.

 

And you are right, I should have tested KDFW too. I only saw that departures worked and that the cleanup tool didn't have a problem with any other file than KDEN.txt. So I was assuming that the rest works.

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"Another approach would be to clean up the KDEN text file,"

 

Right .. I agree.

 

Need to find out what exactly could cause the KDEN or KDFW procedure to crash.

 

Maybe some value or specific RNAV e.g. type procedure that contains a new data field that is not supported?

 

That way we would keep many of the OK procedures at both airports.

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Tested in the Maddog and PMDG NGX, only affects the Maddog.

 

I'd definitely report to Navigraph as it may start happening with other airports.

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CoolP,

 

"I was wondering how one could argue for a check from Navigraph. But since we are using PMDG data, which is copied over and works (over at PMDG planes), we can't really say "fix KDEN" for us. Tricky thing."

 

Maybe the Maddog2008 developer could request Navigraph to put up a specific Navdata that will work with his software?

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Previously I mentioned :

And I tested FS9 again: KDTW KJFK in route page (no plan)

Then I did a SID ok

but wanted to select a STAR but (DEP/ARR button) that brought up the DEP page again... strange!

 

****

 

That was my error ... I checked again today and I did not set up the INIT REF and takeoff data first.

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That was my error ...I checked again today and I did not set up the INIT REF and takeoff data first.

Does this trigger a crash of the sim? Or the other way around, if you set up the init pages, can you avoid the crashing gauge when picking the departures?

 

Maybe the Maddog2008 developer could request Navigraph to put up a specific Navdata that will work with his software?

Well they are using the copy over PMDG data method since years, so I guess this only is a theoretical option unless this very PMDG changes/evolves to a point where copying doesn't work anymore.

 

But given that the Maddog devs aren't that active, "currently", I think we would have to rely on someone knowledgeable instead when it comes to spotting the actual error in those descriptions. :mellow:

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I tested FS9 (KDEN to KDFW)

 

As soon as I press the DEP/ARR button on FMC I got a CTD

 

So, FS9 and FSX seem to be failing for KDEN.


"Does this trigger a crash of the sim? Or the other way around, if you set up the init pages, can you avoid the crashing gauge when picking the departures?"



See my post #3 for the initial problem I reported.:
And I tested FS9 again: KDTW KJFK in route page (no plan)

Then I did a SID ok

but wanted to select a STAR but (DEP/ARR button) that brought up the DEP page again... strange!



Turns out it was not a problem.

********************


"But given that the Maddog devs aren't that active, "currently",

 

When was the last "active" time you have seen?

 

I think I and others have not gotten into the forum to post .. maybe the developer does not "want" new pilots purchasing his program to post in the forum ... this I do not understand.

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I think the devs are in contact with some users. Maybe Dave can comment on that one.

 

As far as forum news go, "active" would be the wrong term. ^_^ Not writing that with a too negative tone though.

 

The only activity as of late was the SP3.3 which solved some issues for Win8 users. Maybe, very maybe, the news on some wonky nav files reaches them and they can work out a fix for the cleanup tool and/or the maddog.GAU. But that's a lot of speculation and naive hope from my side.

 

I'm with you though, nice plane in general and I actually want to fly her soon. I even got some cockpit shadows working in Dx10. B) Thanks to Steve for that.

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Maybe Dave can comment on that one.

 

I was communicating fairly regularly with Davide at Leonardo as late as 2012, but he stopped responding to my emails towards the end of that year, and after the third lack of response I stopped writing to him.  I know he's been very busy with his GPS/other  software company, so I understood (but was still down about it).

 

I couldn't say what the chances are of Davide responding to this issue, however I believe that Navigraph would better be able to investigate it. I'm fairly familiar with Navigraph layout, so I'll try to validate the associated files sometime this weekend - but Navigraph could do it MUCH faster. They're fully aware the Maddog uses PMDG software.

 

I strongly suspect there is a errant entry in the file that PMDG can tolerate but the Maddog isn't able to.

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I took another look at KDTW

I noticed runways for SID are in two different layouts.

The first SID AC03 format does not work correctly (screenshots).
This may be a hint to the problem with KDEN (and other airports).



SIDS
SID ACO3 RNW 03L RNW 03R RNW 04L RNW 04R RNW 09L RNW 09R RNW 21L RNW 21R RNW 22L RNW 22R RNW 27L RNW 27R FIX VEELA FIX MAARS FIX SPHRE FIX ACO
SID ERRTH3 RNW 03L RNW 03R RNW 04L RNW 04R RNW 09L RNW 09R RNW 21L RNW 21R RNW 22L RNW 22R RNW 27L RNW 27R FIX RICPO FIX OCTAS FIX ERRTH
  TRANSITION CXR FIX CXR
  TRANSITION ETG FIX CXR FIX MIGET FIX ETG
  TRANSITION SLT FIX TRACE FIX DORET AT OR ABOVE 18000 FIX SLT
SID FWA4 RNW 03L RNW 03R RNW 04L RNW 04R RNW 09L RNW 09R RNW 21L RNW 21R RNW 22L RNW 22R RNW 27L RNW 27R FIX ANNTS FIX ILLIE FIX FWA
SID MOONN5 FIX PULRE FIX WEPIL FIX MOONN
 RNW 03L HDG 035 VECTORS
 RNW 03R HDG 035 VECTORS
 RNW 04L HDG 035 VECTORS
 RNW 04R HDG 035 VECTORS
 RNW 09L HDG 095 VECTORS
 RNW 09R HDG 095 VECTORS
 RNW 21L HDG 215 VECTORS
 RNW 21R HDG 215 VECTORS
 RNW 22L HDG 215 VECTORS
 RNW 22R HDG 215 VECTORS
 RNW 27L HDG 275 VECTORS
 RNW 27R HDG 275 VECTORS
  TRANSITION DKK FIX BROKK FIX BEWEL FIX DKK
  TRANSITION JHW FIX BROKK FIX BEWEL FIX JHW
  TRANSITION YXU FIX BROKK FIX YXU


SID-AC03-KDTW-1_zps522086b0.jpg


SID-KDTW-AC03-2_zps82186d2d.jpg
 

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Thanks for the information, Dave. I double your statement.

I strongly suspect there is a errant entry in the file that PMDG can tolerate but the Maddog isn't able to.

 

Vaughan, those are some funny leg entries indeed.

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I tried CYWG to CYVR as a test because CYWG only has one SID in what I think is the best format and it worked .. no CTD.

SID runway layout for CYWG:

SIDS
SID ARKAY1
 RNW 13 HDG 134 UNTIL 1190 HDG 134 VECTORS
 RNW 18 FIX OVERFLY AVOTU FIX OVERFLY DUXUS HDG 171 VECTORS
 RNW 31 HDG 314 UNTIL 1190 HDG 314 VECTORS
 RNW 36 TRK 004 UNTIL 1190 HDG 004 VECTORS
ENDSIDS


CYWG-sid-1_zps7531b9de.jpg
 

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Yeah, if you'll please send that to Navigraph, they'll be able to correct pretty quickly and they'll issue an interim update.

 

This (and other things, like errant code resulting in dropping runways, SIDs, STARs, etc., have occurred from time to time during the converstion from the actual navdata to the FS navdata formatting. 

 

Thanks for posting.


Since we're all Maddog drivers here.... I thought I'd drop a line about Online Virtual Pilots Association.  We've been flying the Crazy Woofer in shared cockpit weekly on VATSIM for almost 8 years.... and LOVING IT.

 

If any of you guys are interested, please feel free to drop by the website or Voice Server (see links below).

 

We have some strict computer security requirements for shared cockpit (nothing more than up to date antivirus, firewall, etc.) but it's worth it!

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In post #6 CoolP mentioned:

 

"On another occasion, I was wondering how one could argue for a check from Navigraph. But since we are using PMDG data, which is copied over and works (over at PMDG planes), we can't really say "fix KDEN" for us. Tricky thing."

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arrgghhh.

 

I refuse to lead this horse to water for a third time.

 

I'll just fix it myself. Cool, I'll email you the files (let me know if your email changed).

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arrgghhh.

 

I refuse to lead this horse to water for a third time.

 

I'll just fix it myself. Cool, I'll email you the files (let me know if your email changed).

 

I do not understand you statement. But it sounds as if you experienced this type of problem prior ... maybe with Online Virtual Pilots.

 

But anyway, will your fix fix all airports with this problem?

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CoolP mentioned in his post #4:

"Now I was trying to resolve the issue by running the cleanup tool (which wasn't needed so far since later PMDG data sets worked out of the box) and this very tool crashes at the KDEN file, so I guess there's something fishy inside it."


Today I used the Cleanup tool (without checking the fix waypoints box) on the PMDG cycle 1411.
KDEN and my KDTW now worked OK on the test I ran.

The procedure names displayed on the FMC are the old type format but selectable and usable.
 

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UPDATE ON LEONARDO

 

I'm told that Davide, the owner and lead developer of the Leonardo Maddog, has for some time been putting his programming skills to use at the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland.  This explains why he's not been around much.

 

I'm justifying or even weighing in on the topic of developers selling products when they're not not available to support them (meaning that i won't respond to this regarding the Maddog).

 

What I will say is that the aircraft model set many developmental milestones which in turn helped many other developers to provide the types of products we see today. Regarding shared cockpit, only one other developer (Majestic) has produced an stable airliner shared cockpit simulator.

 

Guys, shared cockpit is truly AMAZING when it's done right.  I still make a lot of single cockpit flights, but when there is a VATSIM event, I do my best to hook up with one of my guys to fly it is shared cockpit - it is an AMAZING EXPERIENCE and INCREDIBLE FUN.

 

 

Anyway, there's the update.

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Hi, Dave. Thanks for the update on Davide's situation. Was he in the team who discovered the "too fast" neutrinos btw?

 

Anyway, did you happen to take a look at what causes our KDEN file to crash the Maddog? You mentioned that you had a deeper understanding of the syntax.

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