Two things I notice that are not realistic in fs2004

[edetroit 933]

…pass me the popcorn.

[gwillmot 31]

…pass me the popcorn. 

 

Would you like butter on your popcorn, sir?  That will be $6.50.  Please take your seat and welcome to the Theater of Drama and Flight.  You may use your tray table in front of you until otherwise instructed not to do so.

[mikea76 184]

Depends on where new center of lift is generated in relationship to the pitch axis and center of gravity.

There are REAL planes which exhibit a pitch-down attitude upon deploying the flaps.  I have witnessed this first-hand in full-motion simulators.

Actually had to explain the action to some of the instructors as they thought since deploying flaps always produce more lift, the aircraft should always initially "rise".

 

 

Yes,   

 

For example the older hershey bar cherokee will pitch down on flap deployment while the newer tapered wing cherokee will pitch up.  

[jetblast 0]

Let me get this straight... you're here trashing 10+ year old, home-entertainment, flight simulator software because it's got some glitches such as oversized scenery and not-entirely-accurate flight physics?  Welcome to 2004!  We've missed you.  We're so glad that we've finally got someone of your caliber to put us straight.

 

You don't like confrontation? Then don't be so confrontational and stop whining about obsolete software...

 

Why are you getting so fluster over my criticism of fs2004? Im just trying to find a solution to an issue that would make my fs2004 experience more realistic.When you fly in real world situations you try to find almost the exact environment in fs. I guess if I had praised fs2004 I wouldn't be receiving any replies. But I start telling armchair simmers  wanna be real pilots what its like to be in a real cockpit, and I get hell to pay for, typical...

[Dave Morgan 68]

Ed - sorry, it was that old crossed-purposes thing again. I guess you are thinking of the unlikelihood of a plane pitching forward as flaps slide backwards while I was thinking of extra air being deflected downward causing a larger upward reaction in the plane...

 

So, yes, a reaction to just the movement of the flaps is a bit unlikely. Just as well really or we'd all end up on our noses whenever we tested flaps on the ground.

 

As far as the air thing goes, can anyone illuminate my ignorance? It's clear that if a plane's CoL is aft of its CoG then a sudden increase in lift will cause a nose-down movement requiring yet more elevator input but does that situation ever occur? Can anyone give an example?

 

D

[evaamo 549]

But I start telling armchair simmers  wanna be real pilots what its like to be in a real cockpit, and I get hell to pay for, typical...

 

By the time you wrote this, you only had 9 posts in Avsim in your 7 days since your registration. What a way to debut in the community! you're on your way to become Member of the Month if you keep it up!  <_<

[gwillmot 31]

 

 

It's clear that if a plane's CoL is aft of its CoG then a sudden increase in lift will cause a nose-down movement requiring yet more elevator input but does that situation ever occur? Can anyone give an example?

 

Ah ...... you been reading the replies?

Real example - Dassault Falcon 7X business jet ........ at least in full-motion simulator at flight academy.  Even discussed it with the flight instructors.  Placed in official training documentation approved by FAA.

[Dave Morgan 68]

 

 

Ah ...... you been reading the replies?

 

Doh! No... just came back to my PC from a teabreak and launched straight in!

 

Take me out to the pasture.

[jetblast 0]

Ed - sorry, it was that old crossed-purposes thing again. I guess you are thinking of the unlikelihood of a plane pitching forward as flaps slide backwards while I was thinking of extra air being deflected downward causing a larger upward reaction in the plane...

 

So, yes, a reaction to just the movement of the flaps is a bit unlikely. Just as well really or we'd all end up on our noses whenever we tested flaps on the ground.

 

As far as the air thing goes, can anyone illuminate my ignorance? It's clear that if a plane's CoL is aft of its CoG then a sudden increase in lift will cause a nose-down movement requiring yet more elevator input but does that situation ever occur? Can anyone give an example?

 

D

 

''So, yes, a reaction to just the movement of the flaps is a bit unlikely. Just as well really or we'd all end up on our noses whenever we tested flaps on the ground.''

 

Not sure if your joking or not....

 

But ill tell you this, while coming into approach for landing or practicing stalls with flaps down, when the flaps are extended, I have to push pretty hard down on the yoke to get the nose to come down, and that was with the plane trimmed correctly . Hope you can appreciate that im just telling you this from my own experience flying 800 hours. If there is a pilot who has flown in a Piper warrior or Cessna 172 and has not had this experience id love to hear from you on here

[edetroit 933]

Hello JetBlast, In the ten years that this wonderful sim has been out very clever simmers have been making this sim far better than anyone ever thought possible. (a classic example is polygon limit for aircraft). What I mean is a def FS9 is not that inspiring….a pimped up FS9.5 however is …is….is ….I just love it! :wub:

 

Altitude/distance perception is usually adjusted by zoom in the panel cfg.

 

For your flaps you need to adjust your lift_scalar and/or pitch scalar in the flaps section of your aircraft cfg.

 

FWIW The two things I noticed that nothing could be done about were sloping runways and cloud shadows.

 

FSX did not address either of these.

[jetblast 0]

Hello JetBlast, In the ten years that this wonderful sim has been out very clever simmers have been making this sim far better than anyone ever thought possible. (a classic example is polygon limit for aircraft). What I mean is a def FS9 is not that inspiring….a pimped up FS9.5 however is …is….is ….I just love it! :wub:

 

Altitude/distance perception is usually adjusted by zoom in the panel cfg.

 

For your flaps you need to adjust your lift_scalar and/or pitch scalar in the flaps section of your aircraft cfg.

 

FWIW The two things I noticed that nothing could be done about were sloping runways and cloud shadows.

 

FSX did not address either of these.

 

Thank you for your intelligent response, and not getting angry with me...lol

 

and because it was so detailed and to the point I will mark as ''Solved'' (Best Answer)

[tgibson 11]

Note that when you approaching on AP (ALT mode if level, APP mode if on final descent) that many aircraft *will* attempt to rise on flap deployment, but the AP wants the altitude to be held constant (or continue the descent) and it will drop the nose to achieve that.  Often the behavior is different if the AP is off.

[vololiberista 205]

Well, I have to admit that it's been a few years since I received my degree in Aeronautical and Astronautical Engineering from Purdue University, BUT I don't recall Newton's Third Law of Motion being applied to aerodynamics.  We always stuck with Lift, Gravity, Thrust and Drag ... along with moments created by forces applied to/around the center of gravity and the three flight axis.  I DO recall a demonstration in Physics class that involved bumper cars and Newton's Third Law.  Does that apply here?  Just Say'n.

Correct! Newton's law applies only to mass/weight and momentum/thrust. Most aircraft are designed so that as flaps are extended the nose pitches down. Flaps are a trade off between lift and drag. Extending full flaps will produce a pronounced nose down attitude and because most of the aircraft is attached to the nose it goes where the nose goes. This is countered by increased power to maintain lift as the drag coefficient cuased by the flaps has to be overcome.

The real reason for having flaps is not to "increase" lift but to fly at slower speeds. And while we are on the subject slats have no lift function. Their purpose is to change the wing's angle of attack.

Why are you getting so fluster over my criticism of fs2004? Im just trying to find a solution to an issue that would make my fs2004 experience more realistic.When you fly in real world situations you try to find almost the exact environment in fs. I guess if I had praised fs2004 I wouldn't be receiving any replies. But I start telling armchair simmers  wanna be real pilots what its like to be in a real cockpit, and I get hell to pay for, typical...

Some here are aerodynamicists, some are pilots and some are both. For a pilot you are making very general statements that are not wholly correct. Did you ever pass your aerodynamics exam? The number of people on avsim that pose as real pilots is quite amazing!

As far as your criticisms of FS2004 go, they (your criticisms) are very much out of date. Plenty of work including by some on this thread has been done to tailor each aircraft's characteristics to as close as can be got to the real thing. There are also plenty of aircraft that developers did nothing to, and used the sims settings for aerodynamics and thrust. So the choice is yours.

 

Why are you getting so fluster over my criticism of fs2004? Im just trying to find a solution to an issue that would make my fs2004 experience more realistic.

Download or buy a properly made aircraft and/or learn how to adjust some settings yourself. Instead of bad mouthing a product that doesn't need it!

 

You want to read something about aerodynamics then read this

http://www.vc10.net/Technical/wing_shapes.html  A T tail aircraft that won't superstall!! The first commercial jet with super critical wings. An aircraft designed for high lift at low speeds and it always dropped the nose for each flap extention.

[jetblast 0]

 

 

Some here are aerodynamicists, some are pilots and some are both. For a pilot you are making very general statements that are not wholly correct. Did you ever pass your aerodynamics exam? The number of people on avsim that pose as real pilots is quite amazing!

 

 

Yes, I got 97% correct on my written exam. And yes, im not lying that im a Commercial pilot with an I/R rating. And its an insult to even suggest that im telling fibs about my qualifications, I spent $60,000 to obtain my PPL, I/R and CPL  , and alot of work and studying, so dont even go there. Im going by experience, like I said, id like for a pilot on this forum to tell me how the plane (piper or Cessna )reacts when they extend the flaps. Because I can tell by many of the answers on here that you are going by what you read in a book and not what you actually experienced as a REAL pilot in a REAL plane.

[vololiberista 205]

Yes, I got 97% correct on my written exam. And yes, im not lying that im a Commercial pilot with an I/R rating. And its an insult to even suggest that im telling fibs about my qualifications, I spent $60,000 to obtain my PPL, I/R and CPL  , and alot of work and studying, so dont even go there. Im going by experience, like I said, id like for a pilot on this forum to tell me how the plane (piper or Cessna )reacts when they extend the flaps. Because I can tell by many of the answers on here that you are going by what you read in a book and not what you actually experienced as a REAL pilot in a REAL plane.

So none of us know what we're talking about. Yeah right! Obviously from your point of view. Find a really well modelled Cessna or Piper and see if it differs from the default a/c. BTW some of us here have more flying hours than you've had hot dinners and on many different a/c types too!