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Best simulator for Glider pilots?

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Well, I am a glider pilot myself, at more than 34 yrs, have extensively used FSX and even it's best soaring simulation add-on - CumulusX! - and still think it's a loss of time if you really want to come close to what soaring, and specially soaring competition, means IRL... If it's just for a bit of fun and having gliders in FSX, then it's OK!, just like it is to fly the default helos....

 

The problem starts in the poor flight dynamics offered by FSX, when it comes to reproducing most of the aerodynamics characteristics of a "simple" unpowered aircraft, like a glider. Then weather, terrain and it's interaction with it, etc... all sum up to give a very poor outcome, IMO. To each each own, and Condor, or Silent Wings are on a very different league... I still miss SFS3 too ...

 

Cohones los tiengo hombre !!!! ;-) Vacadas nuchas tambien....


Main Simulation Rig:

Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti, 1 TB & 500 GB M.2 nvme drives, Win11.

Glider pilot since October 1980...

Avid simmer since 1992...

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Give it a go... but it takes a little time and money to set up for soaring in FSX. 

 

Buy the licensed version of CumulusX!, and get WinchX! (free).  Delete or rename the 'thermaldescriptions.xml' file from your FSX root folder.

 

Set fair weather, and time and season around midday and Summer, and go soaring.

 

CumulusX! comes with its default settings, but has a range of variables that you can play with.

 

We most of us know that its not really that 'realistic', and that Condor was designed specifically to simulate competition soaring, but you can still have a lot of fun in FSX, and don't take too much notice of the nay-sayers.

 

I've flown gliders for over 30 years and it's OK by me.

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While this has degenerated into a mine is good yours is bad sentiment. It really depends on you goals and expectations. I find FSX to be superior gliding simulator in many respects. Why? Because I enjoy flying in many parts of the world with realistic or photorealistic scenery with accurate roads and even historic landmarks and turnpoints.

 

The real issue is flight dynamics, frankly, no simulatior gives that seat of the pants total immersion than actually flying gives you in your gut.

 

FSX does require addons and modifications to beome a fairly realistic glider sim, certainly out of the box it is poor, but with dedication it can be transformed quite well. This can be said about any FSX niche whether soaring, commercial flight simulation, or what have you.

 

The basics are Cumulus X, which has also various tow plane options, as well as a little program called Aerotow which is now defunct but can be found around the net. Yes you need a weather program if you want real world weather, but most often in soaring we pick our conditions for the day and by using the weather utility in Native FSX and Cumulus X you can generate reasonably realistic conditions.

Wolfgang Pipers glider collection has already been mentioned. and most include some form of  soaring navigation function, for more realism you can download and install XCSOAR which is a full scale glider computer. with this tool and Plan-G another mapping utility, you can calculate, design, and execute complex soaring tasks and track the real time performance of any of several full scale polars of actual sailplanes. In addition there is a way to log your flight as an igc file and replay it or analyze it with Cambridge software or SEEYOU software, the latter which you can replay in full color of realistic terrain mapping. There is much more to be discovered, I have gone on long enough, but to simply say FSX is rubbish is a myopic and limited view by those who have not invested the time to get FSX tweaked to glider simulation. Condor is great for those with limited and specific goals, but FSX opens the whole world to the art of soaring.

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Granted, I have not tried XCSoar in FSX but I have tried Aerosoft's Discus X and CumulusX and have a long time ago tried the Configure the Tow plane to turn the way I wanted it to by tugging to the left or right on the Tow rope. (That never worked for me).

So are you guys saying that if I am on Final glide in FSX and XCSoar indicates that I will arrive 300' over the finish line if I fly the speed to fly Macready Setting in FSX, I will in fact arrive over the finish line a 300'?

I accept the GPS data from FSX would works fine with XCSoar but I doubt that Macready theory works in FSX!

I am happy with the way it works in Condor. It is realistic enough for me to be able to trust my speed to fly and fly tasks competitively.

Flying gliders in FSX is certainly possible but my experience is that its fidelity to RW soaring is far more limited than condors. In condor centering a thermal and the behavior of the vario is quite realistic. That is not the case FSX with Cumulus X. Cumulus X is not terrible and I believe it would be far better if not the limitation of FSX. Condor was designed to specifically model lift accurately. My Gliding club even uses Condor to train pilots. We wouldn’t even consider FSX as appropriate for that purpose. And since the vast majority of Real glider pilots would endorse Condor as the go to Soaring Sim, I would have join that chorus and direct soaring ab-initio glider sim pilots to Condor.

Not saying that Soaring in FSX is not fun or somewhat representative of what it is like to fly the real thing but in the case of a simmer and particularly on that has indicated an interest in gliding for real I would again recommend Condor if you must Sim.

However, personally I suggest that anyone interested in gliding should go take a flight and forget about Flight Sim of any kind until they are a least a solo if not licensed pilot.

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The Wolfgang Piper gliders in some cases come with a Mccready gauge function. not dependent on XCsoar. there are several ways to skin that cat in FSX. and yes it works reasonably well. There are two types of gauge sets in Wolgangs sailplanes one is the older Caiset system which relies of your manually loading GPS.NAV data into FSX. the other more recent is the B21 gauge set designed by British programer full scale a glider/ sim pilot Ian Forester Lewis. If you have an open mind try it , I can't explain it all here. Better yet visit the UKVGA they are a dedicated group of simmers and full scale glider pilots with a tremendous dedication to getting online multiplayer realistic glider simming accomplished. twice a week no less. I agree thermal modeling is probably better in Condor, it has  its advantages, but as I said it depends on your goals and expectations which is best for you. I feel that FSX offers a much richer wider experience than condor, but that is just me. I worked with the National soaring museum and for full scale training Condor is the go to program, but not everyone wants a trainer program and is willing to take some, give some with FSX. the point is FSX is not a terrible soaring simulator if you have the patience to sort it out. Dismissing it out of hand as terrible is really not fair.

I design scenery for FSX and in particular some glider fields that have realistic buildings and runways, this eye candy for me and apparently about 250 others who have downloaded it is worth the effort.

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I tried Wolfgang Piper's ASW 27 some time ago. I cant remember if it was in FSX or if I shoehorned it into Prepar3D V2. I did have trouble with the sound but I quite enjoyed the brief flight. Alas I no longer us FSX and my FSX install is Vanilla and used almost exclusively for making my ES scenery work in P3D. I have tried using ASN with the Discus X shoehorned into P3DV2 and it doesn't do a bad job of Ridge lift also the thermals it generates do seem to come off darker and paved areas on the terrain and If I can remember correctly they seem to correspond to the Cu. That's about as far as their similarity with real thermals Goes.The DiscusX doesn't seem right to me Prepar3D V2 and the Instruments certainly do not work right. Anyway I will have to give Gliding is Prepar3D another go and see where it is at today.

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I have P3d v2, FSX 32 bit system (xp) FSX on 64 bit system, (Win 7) X plane, Aerofly FS as well, i have sampled Condor but don't currently have on board.

If you use P3d, you may have some issues installing some of the things you need, i tried it and was moderately successful. You will want the latest Cumulus x, simlogger, latest updated Wolfgang Piper plane or planes, he constantly improves things. the problem with CX is the thermals are static, they don't move. but they do tilt with wind, and by manipulating the turbulence and tweaking CX you can get a reasonable thermal, just static.

other than that FsX holds a lot of potential. It is work to install all of the additional stuff and get it working but it is worth it if you have time and are a glider junkie. Its a bit of a trick to get XCSOAR working but if you know your way around virtual serial ports its not bad. It uses FSX GPS out. you also will need Peter Dowsons FSUIPC, latest version registered.There are a plethora of tutorials on the UKVGA site, and a great friendly group. http://www.ukvga.org/index.php

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Thanks, I'll take a look at that link later:-)

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Wow what have I dived into lol.

I think I would prefer a simulator that offers me most of those capabilities ouf of the box and if FSX requires lots of tweaking to get it right, I think I'd rather go with something like Condor which offers all of this already and possibly - from what I read - at a more RW like level.

 

I assume Condor is realistic straight out of the box without much ado, other than perhaps add secenery or gliders would that be fair to say?

I would neither have the time nor experience to tweak fsx at such a level.

 

Also is there good ressource/book which explains all the intricates of glider flying? I know for example that gliding is rudder intense, however have always found that you get away with less rudder use in FSX than in real life GA flying.

 

On a side note, I am shocked that Condor is still being offered for sale for a whopping ~$60 US, considering it's not even in development anymore...

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Yes I hear you, its expensive. Unique Niche software! It comes with a few good sailplanes. There are 2 glider addon packs but you don't need them right away. and tons of freebees at Condor Club. You will need to read to get familiar with everything. Don't be afraid to enter on line contest. That is what its all about.

You need a good forcefeedback joystick. The MIcrosoft Sidewinder Forced feed back 2 is the recommended unit. A set of rudder peddles. If you have a Saiteck X52 you can use the throttle as a spoiler handle. Best advice I can give a beginner is stick forward speeds you up and stick back slows you down and its all about energy management. turning kinetic energy into potential energy and potential energy into kinetic energy. COORDINATE your turns. Your most important instrument is the piece of yarn taped to your canopy. Its called a yaw string. To coordinate your turn in a powered plan you "Step on the Ball". To do the same in a glider you "Put your foot in the hole". Keep that yaw stick straight down the middle of the canopy. Fly under the clouds! That's where the lift is. When you hear a the high putched bee bee bee. Start turning. When the pitch goes down tighten your turn. when  it goes up flatten your turn.

 

Here is the book you want. Its a bit advanced for a beginner but is a tour de force of soaring.

http://www.amazon.ca/Cross-Country-Soaring-Helmut-Reichman/dp/1883813018

Shop around for the book you might get a better deal and there is a paperback

 

Use the condor forum they are a very helpful friendly bunch:-)

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Thanks so much for the reply Avidean and the useful hints.

I did take a look at Aerofly FS. Damn it looks nice, compared to Condor. It's not really a competitor to Condor though in terms of actual flight simulation is it?

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Only little problem with Condor FDM, among a few others.... You will find the gliders a bit unstable in their yaw axis, and cross-moment roll-yaw too... You can tune ( with control sensitivities ) it for better, more realistic behavior, but still not "perfect"....


Main Simulation Rig:

Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti, 1 TB & 500 GB M.2 nvme drives, Win11.

Glider pilot since October 1980...

Avid simmer since 1992...

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It's not really a competitor to Condor though in terms of actual flight simulation is it?

 

I have AeroflyFS too. It is fun an looks great. The is really no comparison with Condor.

I wouldn't bother with thermal flight in it but you can set the wind to about 20knots perpendicular to a ridge in the alps

and fly along the windward side of the ridge. Its not quite like ridge running but its a lot of fun and the eye candy is fantastic.

 

You mentioned you are interested in real gliding so the only caution I will offer you is that the perceived wisdom is that

Ab-initio glider pilots should stay away from Simulator until their instructors have ingrained in them good practices and procedures!

It is much easier to teach a person without having to unteach bad habits and you can pickup bad habits from simulator.

like spending to much time looking at instruments, not scanning the sky for traffic etc. bad stall, spin, spiral dive recovery etc.

 

I really suggest that if you want to fly gliders for real the sooner you contact your nearest Gliding club the better. You mentioned you

are in Australia right? I believe that Soaring in Australia works the same way that it does here in Canada. Private clubs run by voluteers?

If you going to start the Soaring journey you going to need guidance sooner rather than later.

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Thank you for the reply again Avidean and Jcom.

Unfortunately my busy schedule will not allow me to take up this hobby for at least another year, however I wanted to expose myself to gliding already.

I have done it similarly for GA flying and have gained a large amount of experience in piloting a plane, navigating, ATC communication etc.

 

I wanted to do something like this for gliding to further my skills in a fun way whenever I have a couple of hours on the side with the hope of it being benefitial once I have the chance to start glider training for real.

Therefore I wanted to read or fly tutorials or anything that gets me underway without doing the real thing just yet.

 

I did not realize that gliding can form bad habits that quickly?!

I have a capabale joystick and rudder pedals, so thought I'd be well prepared for it.

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Don't want to put you off. Just a caution!

No harm in contacting a Gliding instruction for direction

even if you aren't getting airborne just yet.

Here in Canada that would cost you nothing.

Go luck with it.

 

Dave

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