Any ideas anyone ?

[patrico 5]

fully agree with you Kyle, edit opps! just seen this is my 100th post

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

just seen this is my 100th post

 

Congrats on your milestone  :wink:

 

Just don't waste too much time here like me...haha.

[Mike777 163]

Hi, Patrico,

 

 

 

I don't see how you could be doing anything wrong in your flying that would cause you to get localizer but not glideslope showing, unless you have failures activated and the glideslope receiver or GS indicator has failed. Once you have tuned the localizer you also have tuned the GS, if there is one. There certainly is one at JFK 4L and I am fairly sure there has been for a very long time.

 

Most likely you have a scenery issue somewhere.

 

Mike

[patrico 5]

Thanks Mike I have diligently re-watched Kyle's tutorial 1 video and one of Frugal''s early video's on the 777  but I could not find , that I was doing anything wrong except maybe having the landing altitude set to high at 2500 to intercept  the G/S will try again tomorrow

[Mike777 163]

 

 

Thanks Mike I have diligently re-watched Kyle's tutorial 1 video and one of Frugal''s early video's on the 777 but I could not find , that I was doing anything wrong except maybe having the landing altitude set to high at 2500 to intercept the G/S will try again tomorrow

 

That might be the problem, although you should still see the GS dot both on the ND if set to approach mode and on the PFD to the right.  If you were at 2500 very close to the runway you might not see the GS.  On a normal GS if you are at 1500 feet five miles out, 3000 feet ten miles out, you should be very close to the GS descent path.  In FSX, most GSs can be detected about twenty miles out.  So if you were at, say, 5,000 ft twenty miles out (below the GS), you should be able to intercept it OK if you are on the localizer (the PMDG 777 has an option to allow descent on the GS before you are lined up on the localizer, but it is usually set to "no".  It can be dangerous if set to "yes.")

 

Mike

[patrico 5]

still cannot get it right Mike, this time I was bellow the g/s grrrr so frustrated oh well  just keep  tryiing

[Mike777 163]

 

 

still cannot get it right Mike, this time I was bellow the g/s grrrr so frustrated oh well just keep tryiing

 

Hi, Patrico,

 

Sorry for your frustration!  Are you just not seeing the GS indicator at all (either on the PFD or ND in approach mode), or are you seeing it but the aircraft is not locking onto the GS?

 

Mike

[virtuali 4,421]

Just to confirm, whatever problem you are having, it's not the scenery. See the screenshot, with ILS 4L tuned and GS showing up just fine with the default A321:

 

 

Is the PMDG GS indicator using data from the scenery, or from its internal (Navigraph?) database ? Perhaps there's a problem with that. See a thread on our forum of an user that had a problem with ILS not working (but just PMDG), which was caused by Navigraph:

 

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=8308.20

 

Another thread here, indicating a problem caused by FSX backcourse selection:

 

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=6822.0

[patrico 5]

thanks Umberto,
I do not think for one minute the the fsdreamteam scenery was bad. I think  the problem might lie with me. Very intereting thread on Navigraph who I use.

[777simmer 117]

Just to confirm, whatever problem you are having, it's not the scenery. See the screenshot, with ILS 4L tuned and GS showing up just fine with the default A321:Is the PMDG GS indicator using data from the scenery, or from its internal (Navigraph?) database ? Perhaps there's a problem with that. See a thread on our forum of an user that had a problem with ILS not working (but just PMDG), which was caused by Navigraph:http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=8308.20Another thread here, indicating a problem caused by FSX backcourse selection:http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=6822.0

I do not get that at all.

 

As far as I know, the FMC of in this case the PMDG777 only tells the 777 which facility to use for the approach.

But the facility itself is allways the FSX facility, no?

 

So if I let the FMC tune ILS/DME then the Localizer, Glideslope and DME as programmed into FSX are used/received (this is either the default FSX stuff or from an updated afcad file if you installed a scenery package).

 

There is no such thing as ILS without DME if the afcad has ILS with DME specified.

You dont tune DME manually, it is colocated with the Localizer (usually, there are exceptions) and it is automatically received.

 

The same with Glideslope. It is automatically received (if the afcad files specifies a colocated Glideslope for the Loc) when you tune the Localizer frequency.

I dont see how selecting ILS or ILS/DME in the FMC would make a difference (I dont even understand why there would be more options than just ILS/DME) unless you have duplicated Afcad files.......I have read of duplicate AI traffic Afcad files causing problems....

Then I guess one Afcad file ILS tunes a localizer that does not have a colocated DME (or no colocated Glideslope) and the other Afcad "ILS/DME does have all three facilities specified (loc, gs, dme) and that would be the one that works correctly then.

But then it is not a navdatabase problem but a duplicate Afcad problem.

Again, correct me if I am wrong.....I do not know if duplicate Afcad files can be simultanuously active?!

 

As far as I know, the only way to do a localizer approach where the PFD does not display the Glideslope is by failing the Glideslope in FSX or from the PMDG options.

thanks Umberto,

I do not think for one minute the the fsdreamteam scenery was bad. I think  the problem might lie with me. Very intereting thread on Navigraph who I use.

Patrico, do you only have the problem in NY or everywhere?

 

And earlier you said you selected a landing altitude of 2500ft.

What do you mean with that?

There is no such thing as a landing altitude that you have to set.

You mean the intermediate approach altitude (also called glideslope intercept altitude)?

still cannot get it right Mike, this time I was bellow the g/s grrrr so frustrated oh well  just keep  tryiing

You are suposed to be below the glideslope before intercepting it!

That is a good thing!

 

Rereading your post I understand you did mean the intermediate approach altitude with those 2500ft.

 

2500ft is fine.

You can use 3000ft ir 4000ft as well....it does not matter.

All that matters is that you fly far enough away then that you are still below the transmitted Glideslope beam.

 

If you would program the FMC to be real real low at a point long before intercepting the localizer (like ROBER in 2500ft) then there is no way you are too high for glideslope intercept. Try that, ROBER.......250kt/2500ft, and use Vnav and Lnav untill ROBER. Then from ROBER use Heading Select mode to get on the localizer. Press the APP switch before intercepting the localizer and see what happens.

[virtuali 4,421]

As far as I know, the FMC of in this case the PMDG777 only tells the 777 which facility to use for the approach. But the facility itself is allways the FSX facility, no?

I don't know, that's why I asked. The default airplanes surely use the FSX facility, while the PMDG MIGHT rely on the Navigraph data instead. That might explain why the same scenery works on a default airplane but not on the PMDG.

 

There is no such thing as ILS without DME if the afcad has ILS with DME specified. You dont tune DME manually, it is colocated with the Localizer (usually, there are exceptions) and it is automatically received.

 

The same with Glideslope. It is automatically received (if the afcad files specifies a colocated Glideslope for the Loc) when you tune the Localizer frequency.

 

I dont see how selecting ILS or ILS/DME in the FMC would make a difference (I dont even understand why there would be more options than just ILS/DME) unless you have duplicated Afcad files.......I have read of duplicate AI traffic Afcad files causing problems....

That would be how FSX works, yes. But if the FMC is auto-tuning by frequency after searching for the ID in its own internal database, it's possible is tuned to the wrong frequency.

 

Patrico, do you only have the problem in NY or everywhere?

I would ask, instead "Do you have the problem in the same place, but with a default airplane ?" Otherwise you'll never know if it's something related the scenery area ( AFCAD conflict, etc. ) or something related to the airplane, like an FMC database or an instrument failure.

 

And, see my other sentence and the link on the thread on our forum related to the issue with ILS backcourse, which users seems to have fixed by disabling it.

[patrico 5]

Hi Umberto & Rob, this reply is for you guys as it seems I have not yet mastered the art of the multiquote  and also for Mike 777.

No, I did not in general have this problem at other airports previously except yeserday at an airport I have always landed at with little problem.

You asked me what I meant by a landing Altitude of 2500 yes you are right, I meant intercept altitude, which maybe my problem I seem tto be always to high to intercept the g/s

I have used the robber waypoint tryying to land @ 4L at KJFK

my  next fix will be  to make sure that I am the correct altitude as per the chart to intercept the g/s

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

I have used the robber waypoint tryying to land @ 4L at KJFK

 

ROBER - "Row-ber" - isn't at all related to the ILS to 4L. It might be the end of your flight plan, but I wouldn't ever assume that's relevant to an approach unless you can see a listed transition (which there is not).

 

 

 

my  next fix will be  to make sure that I am the correct altitude as per the chart to intercept the g/s

 

2500 is well above it. The intercept is charted at 1500 at KRSTL (or 2000 at AROKE, but as you can see, that will help to ensure you're below the G/S up until the intercept):

http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1412/00610IL4L.PDF

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

The plane will tune in the nav frequency from its navdatabase, but for the ILS receiver to work correctly this freq has to match the one from the scenery. If these two freqs differ from one another, manually enter the freq from the scenery into the CDU.

[777simmer 117]

The plane will tune in the nav frequency from its navdatabase, but for the ILS receiver to work correctly this freq has to match the one from the scenery. If these two freqs differ from one another, manually enter the freq from the scenery into the CDU.

Yes exactly...that is what I meant as well. There are no nav aids included in the Fmc navdatabase.Nav Aids are part of the scenery/Afcad....which why an FMC selecting ILS or ILS/Dme is the same thing (the same frequeny would be tuned including colocatrd GS and DME if available) unless it is possible for two different afcads to be active at the same time??

ROBER - "Row-ber" - isn't at all related to the ILS to 4L. It might be the end of your flight plan, but I wouldn't ever assume that's relevant to an approach....

I know. But he said he was using the Parch1 Arrival which means radar vectors after ROBER. I just wanted him to be low enough for GS intercept. And since I suspect a user problem here I did want to further complicate things so I did not instruct him my initial plan of having him create a 10nm final point with a 210kt/2500ft restriction.

 

I did not look at the 4L approach plate. (I just happened to remember the Parch1 has ROBER) But if you say the initial approach altitude is 1500ft then I would sugest ROBER at 250kt/1500ft.