Double trouble at Chitose!

[HiFly 16]

In using the default airports for Chitose, Japan (RJCC,RJCJ) I am experiencing an overlap that is interfering with the operation of several of the gates in FSX.  I have tried modifying the AFCAD for RJCJ to reduce its scenery footprint but I have had no luck.  I also tried applying an exclusion file to completely cover up unwanted intrusion by RJCJ but all that did was detract from some of the needed scenery in RJCC.

 

It seems that no matter how I alter the Scenery-Addon files FSX is still grabbing the footprint from the original BGL and unfortunately, both airports share the same BGL file in the main default scenery.  I am not proficient enough to attempt to disassemble the related FSX default scenery file.  I am hoping there is a simpler way to fix this troublesome issue.

 

 

I checked to see if any archive posts on this but found none.  If anyone has an answer or a prescribed workaround for this, it will be definitely appreciated.

 

 

[Daveo 36]

Did you check the library for those AFCADS?
Maybe something by Ray Smith or another author is there that will fix things up.

[HiFly 16]

Thanks Dave!

 

   I checked the forum but didn't think about the library.  I will check that now.

 

 

 

   Library had a freeware AFCAD for RJCC but it still has the same issue:  overlapped by RJCJ rendering most of the north gates inop and GSX still thinks the whole airport is RJCJ which has no gates!

 

 

   Anyone else have any ideas?   This is still UNSOLVED!

Edited November 28, 2014 by HiFly

[HiFly 16]

   This problem is still not solved!!!!   Should not be marked as solved!

[Daveo 36]

Thanks Dave!

 

   I checked the forum but didn't think about the library.  I will check that now.

 

 

 

   Library had a freeware AFCAD for RJCC but it still has the same issue:  overlapped by RJCJ rendering most of the north gates inop and GSX still thinks the whole airport is RJCJ which has no gates!

 

 

   Anyone else have any ideas?   This is still UNSOLVED!

Ah ok. I didn't know this was a GSX issue from start.

Maybe check on their forums.

 

[HiFly 16]

Hi Dave!

 

   Read this again.  This is not a GSX issue.  It is an FSX issue.  The default AFCADS are conflicting with one another and I need to know if there is a way to fix that so I can use RJCC for arrivals/departures.   FSX has blocked the south arrival/departures since they begin in an area that is being corrupted by the RJCJ AFCAD.  Also the north gates at the terminal are non responsive due to the same issue.

 

   It just so happens that when there is such an issue with FSX it also affects other addons such as GSX.

 

   Should this be posted in scenery development forum?  I thought it best to post here first since this forum seems to deal with FSX issues and this is a default issue so others must have experienced it.

[Daveo 36]

Hi Dave!

 

   Read this again.  This is not a GSX issue.  It is an FSX issue.  

If you check the order of the posts and the order of my replies there was nothing in the original post referring to GSX.

[HiFly 16]

 

 

If you check the order of the posts and the order of my replies there was nothing in the original post referring to GSX.

 

Yes, Dave.  My point exactly.  It is not a GSX issue!  It is a problem with FSX, hence my post here in the FSX forum!   If someone knows of a method to untangle these two FSX default AFCADs (RJCC and RJCJ) then I will graciously follow their advice and the issue will be resolved.  

 

The AVSIM library you recommended did not yield any results.

[cptawsom 19]

Have you tried making a completely empty RJCJ AFCAD with ADEX?

 

I mean completely empty, with everything deleted (approaches, ILSes, runways, taxi points, aprons, parkings, jetways, building, models, library objects, taxi signs)? Even exclude the original default RJCJ airport flattening polygon.

 

Then go to RJCC and add:

 

- an exclusion to the original default RJCC airport flattening polygon

- a custom airport flattening polygon that includes the area for both airports

 

And optionally, if you want:

 

Add the RJCJ runways, but into the RJCC AFCAD. It is possible since they have different identifications, and their ILSes have different frequencies.

 

For the game (FSX) they will be part of RJCC, but if you want to fly there with any advanced aircraft addon that has an FMC with navdatapro/navigraph AIRAC, that is no problem for you, you will program it (into the FMC) as RJCJ.

[N60JBravo 27]

I played around with this a bit and I agree with cptawsom.
 
I think the only way to fix this is to consolidate both airports into one.
 
Actually the background and flatten seem to be OK.
 
If you taxi around RJCJ you will see that the taxiways are all built up to the RJCJ elevation yet the surrounding terrain is all at the RJCC elevation.

 

If you look at the .cvx file in TmfViewer the airport poly seems to be one for both airports. Unfortunately there is no way to decompile the file to make sure.
 
One of the challenges is that the terminal buildings are part of RJCJ while the parking and jetways are part of RJCC.
 
My only other thought is to try and contact Jim Vile. If anyone knows how to deal with this it would be him.
 
Jim hangs out at www.fsdeveloper.com
 
regards,
Joe

[HiFly 16]

Thank you both for the good suggestions.  The procedure outlined by cptawsom seems a bit complicated but I had come to the same conclusion as both of you, that the airports must be consolidated into one and I did briefly entertain the thought of rebuilding the scenery and runways for RJCJ into RJCC and then totally excluding RJCJ but any exclusion areas I attempted to put into RJCC seemed not to ever exclude RJCJ.  It instead ended up excluding the north gates of RJCC but scenery for RJCJ was still visible and seemed to be over-riding RJCC in certain areas.  I tried to reduce the AFCAD footprint of RJCJ using FDE but, again, no joy on that idea either.

 

I have rarely ever flown in or out of Sapporo but now that I have discovered the issue, it is one I would like to resolve if possible.

 

Based on Joe's suggestion I will attempt to contact Jim Vile on the developers forum.  Again thank you both for your input.

 

Cheers!

[cptawsom 19]

Do not exclude RJCJ elements (except for the default airport flattening polygon - as there is no other way).

 

Go to the RJCJ AFCAD and DELETE them.

 

In fact, what I suggested in the above post seems to work, as I implemented it last night when I was writing the post, and then went into FSX to check the results. They (the results) were OK, at least visually, from a top-down view.

[HiFly 16]

@cptawsom:

 

  Your help is greatly appreciated.

 

   The problem seems to be that even with all the visual items deleted (so they don't appear), FSX is still registering as RCJC when I attempt to land or takeoff.  Even with strong south winds, FSX is not recognizing the ILS station for the 19R since RJCJ is over-writing the 19R GS location I think.  Also if I use GSX as a check on this, it still thinks I am at RJCJ and thus there are no gates or services available.  If the airports were located in different BGL files within FSX then the issue of deleting (or just excluding) the scenery would work.

 

   When you deleted scenery items, did you check to verify that RJCJ is no longer being dominant?  One easy way would be to check if the default gates on the north side of the terminal are now operational.  In other words, will they now attach to an aircraft with the CTL-J command?  The gates are part of the RJCC scenery but they only "appear" in the RJCJ scenery and thus are inoperative if RJCJ is still over-riding.    Hope that confusing explanation makes any sense.

[cptawsom 19]

As I said, I have not tried the solution I proposed with an actual flight, but I hope to do this in the following days. I am building an RJCC AFCAD from scratch (but starting from the default one).

 

The first thing I will try is an ILS approach on 19R.

 

If the ILS does not work, one possible solution is to delete the stock 19R ILS, and remake it yourself from scratch. You can reuse every element (eg frequency) except the 3-letter code (for example ICC).

 

As for the jetways, I think what I am attempting will work, since I will place new gates and new jetways from scratch, and not keeping the default ones.

[scott967 62]

You might need to experiment with moving the RJCJ tower away and see if there is some point where RJCC is no longer affected.

 

scott s.

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