FMC cargo door

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Yeah, great, lots of things I dont want to bother with either....but that does nit make things right.
On the one hand you guys here are running all kinds of addons that simulate ground operations like boarding and pax noise and cargo loading and fuel trucks.....and then when the basic setup that PMDG provides is wrong you dont care and reply with "I am not running an FA sim".??

 

I'm not seeing how it's "wrong." It's a saved panel state. It's not that I don't care. It's that it's easily changed by the end user through the method I provided.

 

 

 

I usually just start at the take off position with engines running.
I could care less about realistic fuelling and pax.....I dont even care to taxi around.....I dont fly online nor do I use an ATC addon......every addon cost time to understand and setup......time that I often dont have for a sim session!
But that does not mean I would answere someone with "I am not running a fuelling simulator or ramp agent sim, etc" etc.

 

The door arming/disarming thing is there to provide an extra feature for people who feel like using it. It's not a core feature of the aircraft. That's all I'm saying. It's not an issue a pilot would normally concern themselves with other than verifying it's been done by looking at the DOOR status page. It's on the fringe of the simulation of the pilot experience.

 

 

 

Anyway the few times I did go through the whole thing.....to see if preflight programming and setup worked as in real life.....I found that the doors were armed with nobody on board (panel state LONG)....rather dangerous in real life!

 

...but for those who prefer to stick to the flight deck part of the simulation, saving the default LONG state default with the doors not armed would mean that they'd have to go arm all of the doors manually. It's a simulation. Compromises have to be made in certain areas. This is one of them.

 

Luckily, you have the option to set up a panel state the way you'd prefer to set it up.

Ok so I could safe my own panel state but I prefer to not introduce errors which can happen with saving panel states.
(every other first answere to someone with a problem is....."maybe it is your saved panel state")
I dont have a single saved panel state!
I want to know that when I see a hickup in my sim session that it is NOT because of my own doing such saving an erronuous panel state.
So I prefer to use a PMDG "certified" panel state.
cant be too much to ask for a correct LONG panel state I would think.

 

This isn't entirely accurate. Most of the reason people have issues with panel states is because they're saving over them over and over and over again. Any file, when saved over and over again, becomes more susceptible to corruption - Excel, Word, Notepad, or otherwise. If you take the default panel state and then save a new one it won't cause any issues.

 

In fact, the "fix" for a corrupted custom panel state is to simply delete it, put the plane back into how your custom state should be, and then save a new state.

 

The default panel states are also "saved panel states," by the way. They've just only been saved once or twice instead of over and over again as is often the case with corrupted panel states causing issues.

[KriVa 307]

 

 

I found that the doors were armed with nobody on board (panel state LONG)....rather dangerous in real life!

I may be wrong (no real life experience on the 777, only on the 767), but doesn't the slide automatically disarm itself (when armed, of course) if the door is opened from the outside? I'll have to check it again to be sure, but as far as I know, our 767s do this.

[bboo 2]

Hi Thomas,

 

777 doors auto disarm when operated from outside.

Pulling the outside handle moves the select handle to disarm position, slide is then out of brackets and EPAS disarmed.

Turning the outside handle opens the vent door, then this damned door!

While in EU most airlines require Cabin Crew to operate doors, many North American companies have Ground Staff to take care of that.

I guess it's even mandatory on modern airliners to have doors self disarming when operated from outside of the fuselage (maybe not the case for 737NG).

 

Wouldn't like to be the guy outside opening a 777 door stuck/left in armed position! ((

 

It's pretty cool to be able to arm/disarm/open/close each door from the CDU (Patrick you should be able to operate all doors including cargo from any CDU on the 777 PMDG),

there are situations you keep all doors armed except L1, last minute issue/check/wrong door status blablabla. Ok that won't necessary happen on Vatsim/Ivao/Home basement haha, but that's still cool, and frankly, disarming/opening/closing/arming all doors from the CDU is a 5 to 8 seconds story.

I guess they kept the armed position for Long panel state 'cause so few simmers would care about doors operation, there's no inadvertent slide deployment simulation.

[777simmer 117]

I may be wrong (no real life experience on the 777, only on the 767), but doesn't the slide automatically disarm itself (when armed, of course) if the door is opened from the outside? I'll have to check it again to be sure, but as far as I know, our 767s do this.

Yes correct....but it is not something you would (comfortably) rely on.

 

Also once one door is open and the cleaning crew enters....who is to say that one of them won't open one of the other (still armed) doors?!

 

You never ever want to have an armed door on ground unless the crew is onboard and in control of things.....those things have killed people before.

 

(yes I realize we are still only simming here, lol)

[777simmer 117]

The door arming/disarming thing is there to provide an extra feature for people who feel like using it. It's not a core feature of the aircraft. That's all I'm saying. It's not an issue a pilot would normally concern themselves with other than verifying it's been done by looking at the DOOR status page. It's on the fringe of the simulation of the pilot experience.

(I am having a problem with IOS8 on iPad2 (and many many other problems) where I cant cut and paste easily anymore so I quoted only a part of your reply)

 

Ok. But in my case, IF I decide to go through the whole process from cold and dark or LONG then it is to either test something or to see if I would forget anything if I have to do everything alone. I therefor put the doors exactly as they should be and have all kinds of ground support (electrical/air) connected so that I can later on try to not forget to unplug those things and close and arm doors.

 

Sounds silly maybe....but without colleges replying to you it is actually much easier to forget a step. Plus I kinda enjoy that every now and then :-)

 

By the way on a ferry flight (no pax and no FA's) it does become the pilots job to arm doors.....but yes these are rare. (had an empty flight once to the maintenance facility)

 

Also interesting to know is that the door status page actually tells you.....NOTHING.....about the door status (in the real 777).

Learned that two years ago when a FA opened the disarmed door that then deployed the slide!.....huh?

(the slide did not fully deploy because the FA was quick in her reaction and did not further open the door after the slide fell from its compartment.....so the bag only fell on the floor and maintenance took care of the rest)

Yes the door handle was disarmed and the door indication showed disarmed as well.

Maintenance explained us that the door status indication is actually only linked to the disarm handle. But not to the girt bar!

So the cockpit status will indicate disarmed as soon as the door lever has been positioned to disarmed.......in our case the door was in fact not disarmed because the girt bar (that is what deploys the slide) was frozen stuck to the floor brackets! Fun right ;-)

 

Anyway I understand the point you made with "compromise has to be made"

 

And I did not know people were saving panel states over and over again.....I agree, that is asking for problems.

Maybe I will create one then. thx.

[willywonka 36]

Heh... well the door arming/disarming doesn't actually have any effects in FSX anyway, other than on the EICAS if you have the door status option in your aircraft. You can perfectly fly the plane with all the doors disarmed and it won't affect the operations at all. So... in short, you can perfectly ignore the arm/disarm status  :rolleyes:

[777simmer 117]

Heh... well the door arming/disarming doesn't actually have any effects in FSX anyway, other than on the EICAS if you have the door status option in your aircraft. You can perfectly fly the plane with all the doors disarmed and it won't affect the operations at all. So... in short, you can perfectly ignore the arm/disarm status :rolleyes:

Yes you can.....but I dont want to......

 

You can also forget about the gear upon landing in FSX and nobody dies......still I prefer to put it down.

 

as I said before,.....IF..... I decide to go through preflight setup and everything with LONG panel state (which is not often), then that is because it is fun to have to think about everything:

- overhead panel setup...make sure external electrical power is used and that recirculation fans and pack are off if external air is used. (you could disregard that too....but thats no fun)

- program the FMC

- setup the rest of the cockpit

- Start APU (latest when FA's are complaining it is getting hot or cold)

- close all doors that were open for catering etc, except L1 (still boarding plus ground personell is still on board)......this is why I have to disarm/open/close all doors :-(

- when boarding is complete you usually get the loadsheet and ground personel leaves the aircraft.

- "Cabin crew close doors" announcement from cockpit....again, this is why I have to disarm/open/close the doors.

- Request winds and performance data (loadsheet) and load the FMC

- Ground tech staff will usually request if they can disconnect external power at this point

- so, disconnect external electrical power (cockpit switches)....then remove external electrical power and air via CDU.

- when it gets quiet, hot or cold, the external air has been removed. Turn Recirculation fans and pack switches back on.

- get latest ATIS (if flying with real world weather) and reprogram departure rwy and SID if required.

- departure briefing

- when cargo loading is complete (this is usually what you are waiting for), close all cargo doors.

- The gate is probably now moving away, so "cabin crew arm slides" announcement from cockpit....again something to think about (which is fun) if you had disarmed/opened/closed the doors, and arm all doors via the CDU.

- request pushback clearance

- bye bye

 

 

Despite the argument others have offered.....I stick to my opinion.

IF you go through the whole setup because it is fun.....then the doors should be disarmed so that you can:

- close most of them when catering is done

- make a "cabin crew close doors call" so that all doors are closed when boarding is complete (and ground personal has left the aircraft).

- make a "cabin crew arm slides" call shortly before puchback.

[patrico 5]

wow! such a response guys, I am  very  impressed by your knowledge and have learnt lots

 

for what its worth Rob. I fully agree with you

[kevinh 409]

It's pretty cool to be able to arm/disarm/open/close each door from the CDU (Patrick you should be able to operate all doors including cargo from any CDU on the 777 PMDG),

Given the choice between being able to arm and disarm individual doors and being able to arm and disarm them collectively I'd rather have the latter. That's the normal operating scenario.

there are situations you keep all doors armed except L1, last minute issue/check/wrong door status blablabla. Ok that won't necessary happen on Vatsim/Ivao/Home basement haha, but that's still cool, and frankly, disarming/opening/closing/arming all doors from the CDU is a 5 to 8 seconds story.

 

I've yet to be on a flight where the doors were not armed all at once by cabin crew after pushback starts. I've never seen L1, or more likely L2 on a 777, left unarmed just in case.

 

Arming all doors individually is a tedious eight button sequence to do every flight. It's also unrealistic as the flight crew would not normally have to do this, just note the result on EICAS. Disarming all doors after a flight is even worse. You have to open and close them all first, so that's 24 mouse clicks. Phew.

 

Far better to have individual door open/close controls but a single all doors arm/disarm. If individual arming of doors is also possible, as with the MD-11, then that's a bonus.

 

An alternative would be some built in logic to automatically control the sequence, as happens on the LDS767. PMDG have a turnaround simulation already, it could be part of that.

[kevinh 409]

Despite the argument others have offered.....I stick to my opinion.

IF you go through the whole setup because it is fun.....then the doors should be disarmed so that you can:

- close most of them when catering is done

- make a "cabin crew close doors call" so that all doors are closed when boarding is complete (and ground personal has left the aircraft).

- make a "cabin crew arm slides" call shortly before puchback.

Even more so if you are using GSX (I'm a recent convert to it). Door operation is the key to most of that. And as you say it's fun to do in FSX. I've never done it in a full flight sim though. After a flight to check any changes made are working I do often get tempted to taxi to a gate and shutdown properly. Especially if I'm the last person using the sim and it has to be left "dark" anyway.

[patrico 5]

on behalf of everyone's help I have received on here,  I have just made a donation to the Avsim fighting fund

[777simmer 117]

You are a good man :-)

 

I think that goes directly into Kyle's pocket thought ;-)

They said they couldn't make an all doors arm control work, just individual door arm controls. An all doors arm/disarm control would be much more realistic. It's a shame they didn't decide to do that and leave the individual door controls as open/close. Arming and disarming a single door isn't that realistic.

I suppose the FSX taxying experience doesn't compare to the real thing. I actually enjoy taxying the sim so I usually start at the gate unless I'm testing something.

Ok gotcha....I misinterpreted what you wrote before.

 

Taxiing in FSX by the way is not too bad.

Especially at an addon airport with correct taxiways and signs it is great fun.

Add to that the correct dimension of the PMDG777 and it looks very real....the amount you have to wait before turning left or right (letting the taxiway you want to turn onto behind you) is pretty much as in real life.

I use a combo of camera views created with OPUS FSX and TrackIR to judge the turn....works quite well

While turning, FSX seems to make airpanes skid a bit weird, exspecially when faster than about 10kt it seems hard to turn due to this, but other than that....it is great fun :-)

 

The only reason I dont preflight and taxi often is that is time consuming

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

I think that goes directly into Kyle's pocket thought ;-)

 

haha - PMDG and AVSIM are completely separate entities. Donations to AVSIM just help Tom fight the good fight and keep this place alive.

[777simmer 117]

haha - PMDG and AVSIM are completely separate entities. Donations to AVSIM just help Tom fight the good fight and keep this place alive.

You allways reply fast Kyle...but that was record breaking, haha.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

You allways reply fast Kyle...but that was record breaking, haha.

 

Slow day at the day job...

 

...shhhhh... :ph34r: