As a commercially rated pilot, getting my CFI right now, I really like the idaa of a Civil Air Patrol focused product. But, no offense to the Abacus team, but their planes look like something out of the Fs98 stoneage. Anyone else agree? If they are going to do a partnership and a payware product, shouldn't hey put out a better product? Schnikees those planes look bad!CB

I agree. I hope the CAP planes come out good. I am in CAP and would love to fly one of our planes.

Agreed, Abacus models remind me of the story of the Emporers new clothes. I don't think they can be taken seriously, perhaps it's time for regime change as the existing management don't appear to listen or are afraid to say anything to the designers. Sad really.Ash

Here's the deal, as I see it (caveat: I bought and have been disappointed by two Abacus products over the last four or so years - Sky Ranch and the more recent helicopter package)...They don't care about you or me - they don't need to. They're raking in the dough like no other FS add-on company has ever done.Abacus is very successful at what they do. I see three or four of their titles at the local electronics megastore (Fry's) - and (unless I missed something) *no* titles by any other FS addon company. Why? (1) they've been in the biz for a long time, and more significantly (2) they depend on the lack of knowledge and sophistication of the typical megastore customer. Think about it - some guy who likes to fly under bridges (confession: I've done it) and crash into buildings (did that too, but not for the last four years 8^( ) sees a product where he can be a bush pilot! or a helicopter pilot! or (insert type of flying)..Also, many of their titles come with several aircraft. That guy doesn't know that what he's looking at is a collection of either repackaged freeware titles or (worse, in my opinion) in-house-created airplanes and scenery.I will put forth the thought that Abacus has no intent of competing with companies like Flight1, FSD, PMDG, etc. They don't have to - they can make more money with less work than those guys will ever make, as most normal humans don't want to or need to set the cabin pressurization to a particular value related to cruise altitude 8^) or have a semi-accurate engine start procedure. They want to load it up and go flying and watch the clouds and airplanes go by.I would love for Abacus to prove me wrong someday, as the *concept* and *included aircraft* of many of their titles are compelling - but as I found out, there are any number of freeware offerings that blow the doors off of their stuff, and I don't really see any reason for them to change their business plan.By the way, my post is not intended to slam the enormous crowd of casual flight simmers - I hope they have as much fun with FS as I've had - my only point is that Abacus caters to that crowd, which is probably hundreds or thousands of times larger than the number of regular readers of the Avsim site.Dave Blevins

Dave,For the most part, you're right on the money here. I would agree that some products are definately designed for the casual user. And, IMHO, that is part of what makes MSFS so appealing to so many. I guess you could say something for just about everyone. And, it keeps the entry level simple for those just wanting to get their feet wet.And who knows, get a few folks interested on the entry level and before you know it. . .we might have some more folks interested in downloading the incredible freeware and payware versions available here and elswhere. Kind of a "let them in the door, show them around. . .and get them hooked," strategy. Which, IMHO has worked extremely well and has been part of what has kept this franchise on top for a very long time.So, the only question I have is. . .when are we going to see some bombs and rockets tied up to some cubs? :)Gary Hawk

>Dave,>>Snip, snip!>>So, the only question I have is. . .when are we going to see>some bombs and rockets tied up to some cubs? :)>>Gary HawkYeah, we could all line up and do a bomb run on Abacus corp. headquarters. I wouldn't buy Abacus prods if they were the last site standing. I WOULD like to have some re-painted CAP planes to fly around, 'specially in AK, WA and coastal Canada.

Agree with everything said about their aircraft, but they do have twonice addons in EZ-VFR and EZ-Landmarks both have been well worth the money for me.

Hi Dave,I was about to make the same type of reply as you, with which I fully agree, so I only have to add to few lines ;-)Lately a lot of developer/publisher bashing is going on.IMO opinion it is quite simple:It is the principle of demand & supply. If one doesn't like a product, simply do not buy it. period.If Abacus, or any other publisher for that matter, does not sell enough, they will stop selling such a product(line).Appearantly there is enough demand, hence they keep publishing it. This is fine with me, why should I bother anyway?

Abacus' track record with aircraft add-ons is dismal. However, they've put out great utilities for design for years.

I was going to say something here but I'll keep my mouth shut. :-hang Brian

Brian, I have a ton of respect for you as a designer and a person, does Abacus give you guys guidelines on the amount of detail an aircraft should or shouldn't have? There are a couple of aircraft at Abacus I wouldn't mind having because they are not out anywhere else, like the 185 on floats, but I know after flying the FSD Porter, I just wouldn't be happy with the detail (or lack of) I see in the screens.While I am not a fan of their lack of detail in their offerings, I do find it funnny, that people will have all kinds of great things to say about your PC-12, Volpar and Daves Stearman, yet turn around and be negative about the airraft at Abacus, when you guys do a lot of those designs.I hope they are paying you guys well, because they are giving you a bad rep! LOLRegards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/mcdcvabanner.jpgCalVirAir International

>Agree with everything said about their aircraft, but they do>have two>nice addons in EZ-VFR and EZ-Landmarks both have been well>worth the money for me.Indeed they do, and I have both and use both. Score one for Abacus, I guess. They do NOT suffer from lack of polish nor from lack of "ability". They do 'zackly what they say they'll do and it's fun flying along with the local landmarks pointed out. Beats flying over all that green scenery wondering where I am. :D

Brian, I'm not so sure that I really mean to bash the planes so much as I want to bash the marketing mavens who are the interaction we consumers have with Abacus. For all of this, the only planes I have from Abacus is/are the ones in their bush flying package. I bought it when I first came into FS and didn't know that I could find more than was in that pkg right here on Avsim. The flights in the pkg were a wash as I've never taken any of them. :D

>Abacus' track record with aircraft add-ons is dismal. >However, they've put out great utilities for design for years.> No it isn't. They used to be THE company to buy from a few years ago.But the world has moved on and they haven't, them having found a niche in which they can exist without having the small but sometimes extremely rude and vocal crowd one finds in forums like this here slagging the smallest imperfection in a product like it's the end of the world.Were I in the BUSINESS of creating FS addons I'd likely place my company in that same market segment, it's easy sales and few customer complaints (certainly very few as a percentage of sales).

If Abacus is like any other company worth its name they attach a budget to the product.That means the designer of the aircraft gets a fixed amount of time to complete the product as well as a set of requirements as to functionality and performance. If that amount of time dictates a low detail approach, then that's what will result.It's that simple...