FSX-MS Vatsim and aircraft - how much knowledge is needed?

[NRiese 0]

Hi!

 

The last couple of days I have been watching several videos, reading Vatsim guides and trying to figure out what's needed in order to start flying.

 

Apparently it's literally every single mechanism you need to know which makes me pretty frustrated as I only know the basics and a little more in my iFly 738. Has someone got any experience with Vatsim? I guess I might be too impatient to learn and read on forums and websites how and what to do. I preffer watching a 5-hour-video telling me everything I need to know about the plane and Vatsim, but these videos don't exist ;-)

 

Anyway, I guess everyone's been there. How did you study and learned everything about not only vatsim but also your aircraft? Right now I just feel like giving up on Vatsim and flying offline casual, and maybe that's the right thing to do for now. But I just wanted to hear how you guys got there. Right now I am at a point where I just can't control the aircraft, listen to the ATC and undestanding the ATC, taking notes etc. all at once.

 

Happy New year!

 

- Nikolas

[CaptKornDog 281]

I would focus on mastering (or at least becoming proficient enough with normal operations) before adding the VATSIM piece to it. Learning the aircraft, ATC procedures and rules, and the VATSIM network interface piece all at once is likely going to be daunting enough to burn almost anyone out.

 

Aviating and airmanship are absolutely the core skills you need to develop first. If you can't control the aircraft on the network proficiently (for aircraft like the 737 on an IFR flight plan, this includes understanding how to fly SIDs/STARs, holding, and multiple types of approaches beyond ILS and visual), you'll more than likely frustrate yourself and cause problems for the other pilots and controllers around you.

[polk2 15]

Vatsim or Ivao are probably the most underrated parts of flight sim and are without doubt must try options for all simmers.

 

I agree its a steep learning curve but addictive once you reach a fairly basic level, ...if you can handle FSX  ATC then you are just about there...have a pen to write down instructions and put newbie in flight plan remarks and maybe avoid events to start with and select quiet areas  to gain confidence where ATC may not even be there but at least you are getting familiar with the pilot client and seeing other simmers online.

 

Go for it....join now.

 

Vatsim has a FNO event every friday night and  its kzfw tonight.....park up at kzfw and put monitor in the remarks and listen to the event on several frequencies.

 

Vatsim and IVAO  are easily the best freeware you will find and its human interaction with other enthusiasts..

[CB183183183 9]

I tell people that when you are first starting with vatsim, use something simple like a 172.  When you see a center controller in the US, it generally means that center controller is controlling a large region of airspace and so you can pick two small airports within that region and get full atc coverage.  In the mean time, spend some more time offline flying the Ifly 737 and watching youtube videos about how to operate it.

 

The two most important things you need to have a good handle on when flying an airliner in the sim are use of the autopilot and using the FMC.  When you feel comfortable in those areas, only then would I recommend flying the 737 on vatsim.  VATSIM has a lot of resources to help get you started if you visit their main website.  

[MarkW 1,490]

To fly on Vatsim you need to be comfortable with the following:

 

1) File a valid flight plan (easy to find online at flightaware.com for North America).

2) Fly the flight plan and be able to go direct to a specific waypoint.

3) Holding is required but very rarely.

4) Be able to follow basic directions.....turn left 240 degrees, descend 5000, etc.  (it sounds strange but lot of pilots seem to have trouble with this part).

5) Read and follow a SID and STAR chart.

6) Intercept ILS and land.  Fly visual approach.

7) Readback instructions.

8) Enter squawk code in your transponder.

 

 

You don't need to know every detail of the aircraft you are flying but you should know how to fly it, follow directions, not bust an altitude restriction, etc.  The main thing once you can do the above is actually listening carefully to what is asked and reading it back.  Clearances should be written down so you remember what to read back.  

 

I would suggest you start at a quiet airport with a tower controller and fly to another quiet airport with same.  Most likely the controllers on tower are also new to controlling (or into their training) and looking to practice with some traffic.  Download Vatspy to find the appropriate airports.

[TheNerd 12]

Hi!

I'm also new to VATSIM. In fact, I just did my first two days ago from TNCM to TBPB in the PMDG NGX for my VA, Worldwide Virtual. And it was a success surprisingly 

There was no ATC at TNCM, but there was other traffic, but at TBPB, they had ATIS, tower, and ground. When I was about 15NM from TBPB, ATC told me to do a 360 degree turn so this way I could follow an A319 to the runway. This was a bit odd, but I handled it. Yesterday, I did a complete flight from JFK to KMIA with almost full ATC (no delivery though at JFK). It's honestly not that difficult. I'm not even old enough for a driver's license and I still managed  . There are a few things I would recommend though before your first flight.

> Sit at an airport gate with nearly full ATC (JFK's always busy). Just listen in and take in everything you're hearing.

> Be sure you know how to fly a SID and STAR (although, in modern planes, this is pretty easy)

> Know your aircraft. Be sure you can fly it by hand. I usually capture the localizer so the plane will line itself up. I'll just fly it down manually.

> If anything, there's always autoland!

> Use a tablet. I have all the airport charts, SID charts, etc. on my tablet to make it easier so I know what regulations have to be followed in the area... and to save paper.

> Just follow ATC's directions and repeat what they say, except when they tell you to standby. Don't forget your squawk code!

> When using UNICOM, I like to report my altitude, where I am, where I'm going and what I'm gonna do. Of course, it's less "formal" than talking to ATC.

 

I've also created a quick start guide (because I have no life) on the ground for my own reference, but I'll put it here:

Top-Down Hierarchy

1.      Delivery = [iCAO]_DEL

2.      Ground = [iCAO]_GND

3.      Tower = [iCAO]_TWR                                                          

4.      Approach / Radar = [iCAO]_APP

5.      Center / Area = [iCAO]_CTR

 

Clearance Checklist

1.      Callsign

2.      Aircraft Type

3.      ATIS (gives all relevant information) Letter Received at the end of ATIS

         Example: Listen to ATIS - look for weather, runway in use, QNH, “information _”

Then, tune to DEL

 

Delivery Clearance Conversation Example

·         ME: “[ARPT] Delivery, good evening [AIRLINE] ####, [AIRCRAFT TYPE] with information ____, QNH of ####, request clearance to ____.”

·         CONTROLLER: “[CALLSIGN], [ARPT] Delivery, cleared to ____ over ____ departure, runway ____, squawk ####.”

·         ME: “Cleared to ____, ____ departure, runway ____, with squawk ####, [CALLSIGN].”

·         CONTROLLER: “[CALLSIGN], readback correct. Information is ____, QNH ####, report when fully ready.”

·         ME: “Report when fully ready, [CALLSIGN].”
**If there’s no DEL, talk with higher up.

 

I may finish it later on, but I feel like I understand what's going on now. And don't forget: It's OK to make a mistake!

 

I hope this helps 

[NRiese 0]

I would focus on mastering (or at least becoming proficient enough with normal operations) before adding the VATSIM piece to it. Learning the aircraft, ATC procedures and rules, and the VATSIM network interface piece all at once is likely going to be daunting enough to burn almost anyone out.

 

Aviating and airmanship are absolutely the core skills you need to develop first. If you can't control the aircraft on the network proficiently (for aircraft like the 737 on an IFR flight plan, this includes understanding how to fly SIDs/STARs, holding, and multiple types of approaches beyond ILS and visual), you'll more than likely frustrate yourself and cause problems for the other pilots and controllers around you.

 

I do know the basics of SIDs and STARs, how they work, how to put them in your route (FMC) etc. Sometimes it tells me that the route is inconsistent, which I have no idea why it should be. Things like these I definitely need to somehow find out what I am doing wrong. The iFly forums is always telling me to study manuals, and rarely a manual is helpful, at least in my opinion, where video tutorials are a lot more helpful. I'll see if I can find some complete-flight tutorials for iFly 737 and check how to handle things I am unsure of.

 

 

 

I agree its a steep learning curve but addictive once you reach a fairly basic level, ...if you can handle FSX  ATC then you are just about there...have a pen to write down instructions and put newbie in flight plan remarks and maybe avoid events to start with and select quiet areas  to gain confidence where ATC may not even be there but at least you are getting familiar with the pilot client and seeing other simmers online.

 

I know how to handle the in-build FSX ATC when flying offline if that's what you're talking about. This is in my opinion a lot more different as you get every message on text and with a understandable, 'clean' voice, while the videos I've watched on YouTube and several guides it appears that the controllers mic's are pretty bad. I am not sure if that's just me, if it has something to do with the quality of the videos or whatever, but to write down what they say and how to readback correctly is one thing - another thing is to actually understand the nato phonetic alphabet and all the numbers. Sometimes I think it goes very fast and there's a lot of these to remember. If the voice isn't very clean combined with the fast-speaking ATC's I find it too hard to understand 100%. 

 

 

To fly on Vatsim you need to be comfortable with the following:

 

1) File a valid flight plan (easy to find online at flightaware.com for North America).

2) Fly the flight plan and be able to go direct to a specific waypoint.

3) Holding is required but very rarely.

4) Be able to follow basic directions.....turn left 240 degrees, descend 5000, etc.  (it sounds strange but lot of pilots seem to have trouble with this part).

5) Read and follow a SID and STAR chart.

6) Intercept ILS and land.  Fly visual approach.

7) Readback instructions.

8) Enter squawk code in your transponder.

 

1) Check

2) Check

3) Not exactly sure what this is actually

4) Check

5) Check - I do get SIDs and STARs and transitions, transition altitudes etc. but I am not exactly sure how detailed a SID and STAR chart is and therefore I can't tell you exactly if I can follow a chart like this.

6) I am pretty sure I got this right, too. Not too sure and this will be one of the things I definitely need to check some guides for.

7) Look earlier in this post

8) Check

 

 

 

You don't need to know every detail of the aircraft you are flying but you should know how to fly it, follow directions, not bust an altitude restriction, etc.  The main thing once you can do the above is actually listening carefully to what is asked and reading it back.  Clearances should be written down so you remember what to read back.  

 

So I do know the basics for flying and a bit more. I can easily startup the aircraft from cold and dark, fly, land, and shut it down. I just don't get a lot of these flightexpressions like ILS etc. I know it's Instrument Landing System (it is, right? ) but what exactly is under this category I am not sure of. Also I am not sure exactly what in the cockpit overhead panel is for what. Again, more videos Shouldn't be a problem at all when it comes to follow directions etc. If I get what the ATC says I shouldn't be having problems reading back correctly, but my problem is that too many informations and a fast-speaking controller I am lost

 

 

 

> Sit at an airport gate with nearly full ATC (JFK's always busy). Just listen in and take in everything you're hearing.

 

So, if I go to the airport the ATC won't speak to me if I tune the tower for example? ;-)

Thanks for the guide btw, I'll write it down. 

[TheNerd 12]

Holding is basically a pattern to follow if ATC doesn't want you to land yet while keeping you in their airspace. I've personally never had to be put in a holding pattern, but it can sometimes happen if there's a ridiculous amount of traffic trying to land. There are probably some tutorials on YouTube is you need help.

And about listening to ATC. Let's say you go to JFK and tune to ground (121.9, I think?), as long as you don't hit your push-to-talk button (which is assigned via Squawkbox or FSInn, VATSIM clients) they shouldn't hear you.

 

Oh, and some extra tips! 

> I always lower the volume of FSX before starting a flight in VATSIM (engine volume to 15-20%) so I can understand the controllers. Don't be afraid to ask them to repeat what they said too.

> Always have a pencil and paper on hand so you can remember what ATC said to do.

> I don't know if this is modeled on iFly's 737, but on the NGX, there are some rotating number dial thingys on the yoke. I use this to have quick access to frequencies so I don't have to memorize or write them down if things are moving fast.

> Download VATSpy so you know if you're entering controlled airspace. Plus, it has all the needed frequencies.

> On Android devices (idk about Apple), there's a free app called Vatalert that tells you if you're entering controlled airspace.

> Start off with airports that have little to no traffic like I did. It's a bit less chaotic and there's less noise, so it should keep you calmer.

 

That's all I have for now  :smile:

[NRiese 0]

Holding is basically a pattern to follow if ATC doesn't want you to land yet while keeping you in their airspace. I've personally never had to be put in a holding pattern, but it can sometimes happen if there's a ridiculous amount of traffic trying to land. There are probably some tutorials on YouTube is you need help.

And about listening to ATC. Let's say you go to JFK and tune to ground (121.9, I think?), as long as you don't hit your push-to-talk button (which is assigned via Squawkbox or FSInn, VATSIM clients) they shouldn't hear you.

 

Oh, and some extra tips! 

> I always lower the volume of FSX before starting a flight in VATSIM (engine volume to 15-20%) so I can understand the controllers. Don't be afraid to ask them to repeat what they said too.

> Always have a pencil and paper on hand so you can remember what ATC said to do.

> I don't know if this is modeled on iFly's 737, but on the NGX, there are some rotating number dial thingys on the yoke. I use this to have quick access to frequencies so I don't have to memorize or write them down if things are moving fast.

> Download VATSpy so you know if you're entering controlled airspace. Plus, it has all the needed frequencies.

> On Android devices (idk about Apple), there's a free app called Vatalert that tells you if you're entering controlled airspace.

> Start off with airports that have little to no traffic like I did. It's a bit less chaotic and there's less noise, so it should keep you calmer.

 

That's all I have for now  :smile:

Thank you! :-) I'll check out some videos on YouTube explaining holding. Not sure about the numbers on the yoke, I'll check it out later. Would indeed be nice to have quick access to frequencies.

 

I guess I'll have to watch some videos on YouTube now on some iFly guides. I'm thinking of buying PMDG 737 soon when they make the PMDG planes compatible with FSX-SE. A bit more guides and hopefully I'll be flying soon!

 

I have already setup VATSIM and vPilot, downloaded VATspy and joined Norweigan Virtual. All needed now is some more knowledge of the ATC and a bit more knowledge of the plane itself

Oh, and I passed my first VATSIM PTD exam pretty easy, hurray!

[wims80 121]

As for SIDs and STARs, being able to select the procedure in the planes FMC is definitely not enough. You need to be able to read the charts and understand what they are telling you. You need to be able to fly the procedure manually completely without the help of the flight computer. A lot of the time the flight computer is simply not flying the procedure correctly, you need to be able to identify this in your fmc and manually fix it (or just fly the segment manually). You are excepted to be able to fly the plan that you filed, that means being able to hand fly a procedure like a STAR, or at least understand every little aspect about the procedure that you filed. If you don't know how to fly a procedure then don't file it!

 

In Europe you rarely file the procedures, you get assigned them by ATC while in-air. If you don't know how to fly a procedure that you have been assigned then let the controller know about it and he'll find some kind of workaround (vectors for the approach). Don't read back something you don't understand, if you don't understand then tell the controller to clarify. 

[CaptKornDog 281]

If you don't know how to fly a procedure then don't file it!

 

This times 1000.

[MarkW 1,490]

I think the main thing with the SID's and STAR's is being able to meet altitude and speed restrictions and also knowing which sections of the SID / STAR you will be given vectors.  So for example the SID's out of CYYZ there is a first waypoint but you get vectors to that first waypoint.....it tells you this on the chart.  Same with the LOOP7 out of KLAX (

 

Based on your comments I think you are ready to jump in.  A lot of Vatsim is attitude and if you are willing to ask for clarification when unsure you will be fine. 

 

One more thing with regard to comms.  I would suggest you bite the bullet and use voice comms as much as possible.  Some new pilots are shy but that will go away in a few flights and you will find it sooo much easier talking and flying rather than typing and trying to fly.

[NRiese 0]

 

 

You are excepted to be able to fly the plan that you filed, that means being able to hand fly a procedure like a STAR, or at least understand every little aspect about the procedure that you filed. If you don't know how to fly a procedure then don't file it!

 

Let's say this: I am assigned a specific STAR for a specific airport. I find the airport chart and it tells me that when passing the waypoint X I need to reduce my speed to X knots and decend to FL X. Is this what you mean? It might be a stupid question, but I am not really sure. I can read charts pretty easy, put the route into the FMC and I know how to edit waypoints, airways, SIDs and STARs, RWY's etc. 

 

 

 

Based on your comments I think you are ready to jump in.  A lot of Vatsim is attitude and if you are willing to ask for clarification when unsure you will be fine.

 

I feel pretty confident, but at the same time I know I have to see a couple of more videos regarding the ATC on VATSIM's website. Also, I need a few more videos for the iFly 737! I guess it's positive though, thank you :-)

 

 

 

One more thing with regard to comms.  I would suggest you bite the bullet and use voice comms as much as possible.  Some new pilots are shy but that will go away in a few flights and you will find it sooo much easier talking and flying rather than typing and trying to fly.

 

Yup, sure thing! This has been my plan from the start.

 

Just to clarify - the ATC is giving me vectors for a specific runway, right? I need to type it into my ILS frequency etc. Is this the same place I enter the frequency for any atc?

 

Thanks again for all your help. Really appreciated! Don't know what to do without help from you guys  ^_^

[TheNerd 12]

When they give you the ILS frequency, you have to put it in the NAV radios. It's right under the radios you use for ATC and says NAV on the left side of the panel. And yes, the charts will tell you speed and altitude requirements/restrictions.

I think you're ready!

[NRiese 0]

Yeah, hopefully! Still need to watch some more ATC vids and jump in and listen as you requested. I'll do that tomorrow.

Yeah, hopefully! Still need to watch some more ATC vids and jump in and listen as you requested. I'll do that tomorrow.