FSX-SE VoxATC, Radar Contact, ... what shall I ?

[qqwertz 770]

Well, there's something I have and didn't mention - PFPX.

 

Will the PFPX flightplans be exportable to VoxATC, ProATCX ?...

Yes.

 

Pro-ATC: you take the route from the release document that PFPX produces, including SIDs/STARs, and paste it into Pro-ATC. The only problem is that the cruising FL is not automatically imported, but that's just one mouse click

 

VoxATC works with the flight plan that is active in FSX.

 

 

So here is a question to all Radar Contact Experts: I wasn't so impressed by it because it hardly does anything. My normal flights with it were of the form: clearance for flight plan, taxi (but no instructions), line-up and takeoff. Then it tells you altitudes and complains if you miss a waypoint or are at an improper altitude. With SIDs and STARs, it tells me once to follow the published procedures and then remains quiet until the end of the flight. Am I doing something wrong, or am I simply such a good pilot that RC4 doesn't find much to complain ?

 

Cheers,

Peter

[vp49p3 216]

I've used VOXATC in combination with LiveAtc.net chatter four years.  I tune in Live Atc for departure, center, and arrival airport, then fire up VOX going and coming.  Plenty of Live Atc chatter in the background for larger US airports. VOX incorporates flight plans automatically and the 90 page manual says you can add sids and stars, but I've never tried it.  If you buy the VOX dvd (instead of the download) it comes with four good ATT voices for the same price as the download.  I then updated the dvd to the latest download version of VOX which keeps the 4 ATT voices.  If you've got the $ you can also use IVONA voices, which are the best.  Over time I've built up an IVONA collection of ten voices, including ones with pronounced British, Australian, Welsch and Indian accents as well as Amercan.  With Anna that's 15 voices total, so things never sound the same.Tegwin (the developer) has been very resonsive to e-mai support.

 

Really sorry if I sound like an advertisement, but I've been very happy with this set up for years.  One of these days I'll get off my butt and use VATSIM or Pilot Edge, but until then my present setup is great.

[Glynn 405]

So here is a question to all Radar Contact Experts: I wasn't so impressed by it because it hardly does anything.

 

What more were you expecting it to do ?

 

Basically you contact clearance, then ground, then departure, various Centers then approach. just like any other ATC program.

Radar Contact will be with you through all these stages, It will give you the departure runway and atis (you will need your airport charts to get to the active like in the real world)

It will advise you of other aircraft in your vicinity, It will give you the landing runway and will give vectors or let you choose to follow your IAP plates.

 

The difference with Radar Contact is that it will do this 100% reliably on every flight whilst delivering the correct ATC phraseology depending on where you are flying.

 

ProATC falls down on both of these points.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,903]

 

 

So here is a question to all Radar Contact Experts: I wasn't so impressed by it because it hardly does anything. My normal flights with it were of the form: clearance for flight plan, taxi (but no instructions), line-up and takeoff. Then it tells you altitudes and complains if you miss a waypoint or are at an improper altitude. With SIDs and STARs, it tells me once to follow the published procedures and then remains quiet until the end of the flight. Am I doing something wrong, or am I simply such a good pilot that RC4 doesn't find much to complain ?

 

That sounds like it's working as it should. "Fly what you file". If you tell RC4 you're going to fly over waypoint XXX and don't it would be remiss of any ATC software to ignore the fact. If it's not given you credit for overflying one there is the option to Request Direct To (press 9) and you have the choice of telling RC which waypoint will be your active one.

 

Regarding being "quiet until the end of the flight" you won't hear instructions given to aircraft much higher or lower than your own aircraft. That's how the real world works. If you're cruising at FL370 you will only hear instructions for aircraft above FL320. As you descend so you will hear more.

 

Presumably you hear instructions to contact APP once 40 miles from arrival airport. Thereafter you will also hear instructions to fly headings and to descend so you can intercept the glidepath thereafter hearing the instruction to contact TWR. If you have requested to fly your own STAR it's true you won't hear ATC with other aircraft from that point but since that time is quite short it's not a major issue for many.

 

After turning off the active runway you should also hear the instruction to contact GND and to taxi to the gate or terminal depending on how you have configured RC.

 

So all in all, you will be hearing quite a lot.

[qqwertz 770]

 

 

What else were you expecting it to do ?

Hi Glynn and Ray,

 

I guess I am simply missing a bit more interaction. The other ATC programs that I use have more going on, especially while on the ground. There are more frequency changes, more contacts with other planes. I am not a real pilot and cannot tell how quiet it is above FL320, but I am simply more entertained by the other programs, so to speak. They are also closer to my experience with Vatsim when all stations are covered.

No question, RC4 does what is says, and it does it well. It is also true that Pro-ATC and VoxATC are not flawless, but they are both under active development and improvements are coming all the time. 

 

Peter

[kingm56 1,023]

Hi Glynn and Ray,

 

I guess I am simply missing a bit more interaction. The other ATC programs that I use have more going on, especially while on the ground. There are more frequency changes, more contacts with other planes. I am not a real pilot and cannot tell how quiet it is above FL320, but I am simply more entertained by the other programs, so to speak. They are also closer to my experience with Vatsim when all stations are covered.

No question, RC4 does what is says, and it does it well. It is also true that Pro-ATC and VoxATC are not flawless, but they are both under active development and improvements are coming all the time. 

 

Peter

 

Peter, I think RC4 has an option to allow pre-recorded ATC messages to play in the background.  If memory serves, it's a check box in the upper right corner of the option screen. 

 

Also, have you considered using RC4 coupled with MCE?  The latter gives you voice interaction/recognition so you can "talk" with ATC; moreover, it gives you an amazing interactive and customizable copilot.   That combination has increased my immersion level by a factor of 10. 

 

Finally, I'd be hard pressed to classify Pro-ATC development as "fast."  Updates are somewhat slow; thus, improvement are not "coming all the time."   

 

Let us know what you decided, Peter! 

 

Matt

[Ray Proudfoot 8,903]

 

 

I guess I am simply missing a bit more interaction. The other ATC programs that I use have more going on, especially while on the ground. There are more frequency changes, more contacts with other planes.

 

You only need 3 ground frequencies - Clearance, Ground and Tower. Plus ATIS of course. Not sure why other programs would give you more. Perhaps you can expand on that. The amount of ground chatter also depends on how much Ai you have. EGLL is very busy for me as I have MyTrafficX with Ai at 40%. Quieter airports will generate less - obviously.

 

 

 

I am not a real pilot and cannot tell how quiet it is above FL320, but I am simply more entertained by the other programs, so to speak. They are also closer to my experience with Vatsim when all stations are covered.

 

RC is not there to entertain. It will react to actions of other aircraft controlled by FSX. Once airborne if real-world ATC was not divided into vertical sectors there would be chaos. I'm surprised VATSIM doesn't work that way. How on earth do you get a word in?

 

No question, RC4 does what is says, and it does it well. It is also true that Pro-ATC and VoxATC are not flawless, but they are both under active development and improvements are coming all the time.

 

What developments do you want from RC4? It's a mature program that was developed using the input of real world pilots and controllers. Pro-ATCX has been out for a couple of years and is better now that when it first came out but still lacks the realism of the real-world in its communications.

 

 

Peter, I think RC4 has an option to allow pre-recorded ATC messages to play in the background. If memory serves, it's a check box in the upper right corner of the option screen.

Indeed it does. I provided recordings for Manchester (EGCC). They are several years old and the runway designators have since changed but they do add another degree of realism as you say. All part of the program available for no extra charge! :Big Grin:

[qqwertz 770]

Hi Ray,

 

You only need 3 ground frequencies - Clearance, Ground and Tower. Plus ATIS of course. Not sure why other programs would give you more.

Sorry, my post was written ambiguously. They don't have more frequencies on the ground, but in the air there are more frequency changes (like Denver Control 1 to Denver Control 2 ).

 

RC is not there to entertain. It will react to actions of other aircraft controlled by FSX. Once airborne if real-world ATC was not divided into vertical sectors there would be chaos. I'm surprised VATSIM doesn't work that way. How on earth do you get a word in?

It does, but the levels depend on your location. Upper airspace in North America is above FL240. And on Vatsim you get quite a bit of radio chatter because often a Center also takes care of the the approaches within its area when the airport controllers are off-line.

 

While I am thriving for realism in my flight simming, I also want to keep it fun. So yes, that entertainment factor is important to me.

 

 

What developments do you want from RC4?

One example would be that SIDs and STARs are assigned dynamically. It often happens on long flights that the wind direction has changed at destination. ATC would then normally assign you a different arrival, but in RC4 you have to do that yourself. Other examples would be ground directives, or Airac cycle support.

 

I am not against RC4, I simply enjoy VoxATC and Pro-ATC more.

 

 

As for RC4 and MCE, I have tried that, but I learned that voice recognition programs in general have a hard time understanding me.

 

Peter

[FastCheetah702 6]

I have just recently installed Voxatc 6.49. Check this out if you like. I like the voice recognition feature you can talk to the atc rather than pressing button. This is a good way for practicing before you go vatsim or IVAO.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,903]

 

 

Sorry, my post was written ambiguously. They don't have more frequencies on the ground, but in the air there are more frequency changes (like Denver Control 1 to Denver Control 2 ).

But are those real world frequencies or made up ones? The file f4.csv (from memory) contains all frequencies used in RC4. Those are updated when you run MakeRunways by Pete Dowson. How do the other programs you use derive their data?

 

It does, but the levels depend on your location. Upper airspace in North America is above FL240. And on Vatsim you get quite a bit of radio chatter because often a Center also takes care of the the approaches within its area when the airport controllers are off-line.

While I am thriving for realism in my flight simming, I also want to keep it fun. So yes, that entertainment factor is important to me.

 

Understood. I  can understand the attraction of VatSim but it has its drawbacks if you want to fly to the less populated parts of the world.

 

One example would be that SIDs and STARs are assigned dynamically. It often happens on long flights that the wind direction has changed at destination. ATC would then normally assign you a different arrival, but in RC4 you have to do that yourself. Other examples would be ground directives, or Airac cycle support.

 

We did start to look at SIDs and STARs but development ceased before we got anywhere. It's a pity that there will be no further development of RC but at least v4 does give you the option of flying your own approach. Something is better than nothing.

 

I am not against RC4, I simply enjoy VoxATC and Pro-ATC more.

As for RC4 and MCE, I have tried that, but I learned that voice recognition programs in general have a hard time understanding me.

Of course. No problem with that at all. Voice recog programs are far from perfect and for those with a strong accent they can be quite hard to 'train'. Nothing is perfect - you just choose what suits you best.

[metalmike 34]

I don't have any experience with other ATC addons, and I use Vatsim a vast majority of the time nowadays (even if there are no controllers online), but one thing I like about Radar Contact is that it covers almost any scenario. You can declare emergencies for various reasons, ask to divert, ask to deviate due to weather, etc., and the controllers will reply appropriately. They can also put you into holding patterns if traffic or weather conditions require it.

Just looking at the feature list of other programs, RC still seems to have the upper hand, and it is very easy to set up. There are some quirks, but it has been very solid in my experience.

[qqwertz 770]

But are those real world frequencies or made up ones?

Frankly, I don't know. However, it is in line with what happens on Vatsim on a really busy day. During Cross-The-Pond, for instance, there are often four different frequencies up for one center. I would expect that this is similar in the real world.

 

I  can understand the attraction of VatSim but it has its drawbacks if you want to fly to the less populated parts of the world.

Well, I often combine both worlds. If I start a flight on Vatsim without ATC I switch on an ATC program and close it when ATC gets online or traffic is too busy. RC4 is actually very well suited for this procedure.

 

Best,

Peter

[Kalorien 1]

I use PROATC/X. I used to fly on IVAO, but since I want to fly the SID/STARS and Transitions according to my weather situation in ASN, for me it´s better to use ProATC. If you make a good flightplan, it will work and you have fun.

 

Yesterday I had a flawless flight with the correct SID, later STAR plus Transition. So nothing to complain about. Everything went fine. It will recognize other aircrafts in any situation and you can count on instructions in these situations. If an aircraft is on final, you will be told to wait on holding point. I didn´t test flying a holding, but it does that also.

 

We can expect more of this nice program, i think. It´s worth the money. But watch the setup, like any other fine program.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,903]

Frankly, I don't know. However, it is in line with what happens on Vatsim on a really busy day. During Cross-The-Pond, for instance, there are often four different frequencies up for one center. I would expect that this is similar in the real world.

Thanks Peter. :smile:

[jcomm 5,882]

Well,

 

 

a BIG THANK YOU to you all for your comments and suggestions. They are still being processed by my rather occupied simmer CPU, specially that at this ( advanced :-) ) state of my life I decided to experiment younger girls, like those remarkable combat flightsims ( DCS, il2BOS and ROF ), who are giving me a hell of a blast every night... So, while FSX-SE has brought back my attention to FSX's World, and using PSX with it is yet another good reason to invest seriously in that platform, I confess I arrive home, and after the family duties, usually fire up DCS or BOS and do some online missions with no ATC :-), or using at most Flares and Pilot gestures :-)

 

As a pilot, gliders only, as a long time ( since I know me ) professional pilot wannabe, as a guy who keeps asking to visit the cockpit on every commercial flight I get the chance to be in ( and I am a lucky guy, probably because the crew usually has meteorologists in consideration  :-) ) I love to be there, listen to their interaction in terms of crew flows but also their interaction with ATC, and there's where my biggest problem always laid ... I have a big difficulty articulating and mentally storing all of those sequences...

 

Again as a pilot IRL, and since we only fly VFR in gliders where I have flown, mostly on Golf Airspace, I really get stressed when I am contacted by some CC, and it happens from time to time. At busy aerodromes, specially some with air schools, it sometimes turns very difficult for me to understand what I am hearing, and even more to "enter the conversation" when required :-/.

 

I was told many times by fellow professional pilots that it's very simple after a few months doing it... it becomes so natural and easy that even when the controllers are difficult to hear or understand, it doesn't really pose any problem...

 

Well, why am I saying all of these ?  

 

Because:

 

1) My ATC robot must be able to accept voice recognition, and I would rather prefer to spend the least I can, not having to buy yet additional products for that end...

 

2) I would like it to be, somehow, didactic, helping me to progressively learn what to say, and actually verbalizing it...

 

So far, VoxATC appears to be, for a start, probably my best choice. Since sometimes I try X-Plane 10 again ( although it usually doesn't last too long... ) I also considered Pilot2ATC, which looks good, and serves both platforms, but from what I read it appears that VoxATC is at a more advanced development phase, so....

 

I think I will get the demo ( yet another advantage of VoxATC ), give it a try, and see if it is really what the youtubes show...

 

I will also try to find out how using this software can be "bridged" with Aerowinx PSX. I would probably try to fly without PSX's ATC robot, and using VoxATC, but I have to ask the author of VisualPSX ( the bridge between PSX and FSX ) if it will work that way, including the injection of traffic generated by VoxATC in PSX - that would be great!

 

Thank you all !