My hope is that what we have is DTG people talking to MS people about the SDK, something that neither groups know anything about.

 

I suspect this discussion is on a legal department level and those folks think the SDK can be used to modify existing content, which it really can't.

 

Hopefully someone will come along and realize the SDK is needed for addon content and that the tools should, and in the near future will, be included.

 

Until then this discussion is pointless.

 

regards,

Joe

Hopefully someone will come along and realize the SDK is needed for addon content and that the tools should, and in the near future will, be included.

Joe, that really is the major point. DTG fully expects to have DLC available, which frankly is going to be rather difficult unless they provide the SDK tools for such DLC development.

 

Yes, at the moment there are a plethora of folks who do have the tools available, but that does nothing for any new folks who wish to turn their hands to the task, at least not without jumping through complicated hoops to find and set up alternative methods.

 

With respect, I disagree that the discussion is pointless, as those hypothetical new folks will be able to find these discussions via a google.com search, and possibly be able to follow the bread crumbs to the 'pot of gold' they seek. :Applause:

Yes, at the moment there are a plethora of folks who do have the tools available, but that does nothing for any new folks who wish to turn their hands to the task, at least not without jumping through complicated hoops to find and set up alternative methods.

Agreed, 100%.

 

What happens if tomorrow LM closes the door to the v1 SDK?

Joe, that is unlikely to happen, but "unlikely" isn't the same thing as "ain't gonna happen."

Gerry, DTG did include the FSX_GmaxGamePack, although they apparently removed the XToMDL.exe compiler from it, rendering it impotent without some additional effort.

 

It's sort of like selling a four wheel car and only including three wheels...

 

For that matter they also include the full GMax v1.2 installer, complete with help.exe and tutorials.exe...

 

Exactly. So I take it MCX wouldn't be functional with an FSX:SE only install and FSX:SE derived SDK. You can use any number of free 3d modeling or animation programs available across the internet to create objects for FSX, and can export those objects to legacy types MCX can ingest. As mentioned, Blender and Sketchup both work too.The fact they would throw a GMax installer in with the download doesn't mean a great deal without a way to convert those to standard FSX formats through the XtoMDL compiler. It's not just a car with three wheels (I've still seen one of those in movement) - it's a car with no transmission. It also invalidates products the community has relied upon for many years, and shows a great deal of disrespect imho to ScruffyDuck whose powerful tools will ultimately make DTG the money in the DLC market we know they're drooling for. Should DTG choose to deny official support of the complete FSX SDK or compilers therein, they can then deny a user created addon center based on Workshop, where a Steam freeware community would be able to thrive. It's very disconcerting, and I only hope that at the very least the online sources for the original FSX SDKs remain intact. 

It's very disconcerting, and I only hope that at the very least the online sources for the original FSX SDKs remain intact. 

None of the 'add on tools' such as ADEX, MCX, etc. will work without the full SDK available.

 

As for the 'online sources for the original FSX SDKs' remaining available, they too are entirely useless since the requisite FSX SDK-RTM has never been legally available online.

I think there is a nuance here that is being conveniently misinterpreted by some, particularly the above mentioned person now banned from this thread. The implication has been that it was MS who "negotiated" the absence of a properly working SDK, whereas there is an equal possibility (I'm not saying it is true but it is possible), that DTG negotiated the non inclusion of an SDK, or even worse, the appearance of an SDK which, as Bill has pointed out, is in reality useless due to the absence of various key elements.

 

Why would they do this? The answer to me is blindingly obvious.

 

It is utterly ludicrous to release a product claiming it is exactly the same product as before but on a new platform with added tweaks to "aid" installation, when clearly there have been SDK elements left on the cutting room floor. Do people really think this was a "mistake"?

 

Saying "contact DTG to request or discuss an SDK" is equally ludicrous. Either FSX-SE is a steam edition of FSX gold or it isn't. It appears it isn't.

None of the 'add on tools' such as ADEX, MCX, etc. will work without the full SDK available.

 

As for the 'online sources for the original FSX SDKs' remaining available, they too are entirely useless since the requisite FSX SDK-RTM has never been legally available online.

You are correct. I checked the FS Developer wiki just now, and only the SPs are linked, no RTM or Accel. For some reason I thought the full SDK was being hosted there. That certainly puts alot of Steam-only users in a horrible position. 

You just don't get it, do you? You do not speak for the community, never have and never will. And, your personal attack in that sentence has resulted in you being banned from this topic. I have a PM coming your way as well, that I am sure you will not like too much either (again, as we have been down this road before).

Go get 'em Tom. It's nice to know that I'm not the only guy who thinks he's a PITA.

 

Doug

Despite all wailing and gnashing of teeth in this forum at least one developer, First Class Simulations,  is creating FSX-SE DLC with or without a SDK.

Around the World in 80 Flights released on on 14 January 2015 which includes:

80 flight legs

Over 400 hours flying time and 35,000 miles
Over 112 countries are either visited or flown over
The longest flight is nearly 3000 miles from Honolulu to San Francisco
The shortest flight is 55 miles from Helsinki to Talinn, Estonia, crossing the Baltic
The northernmost point of the trip is Sondre Stromfjord in Greenland whilst the southernmost point is Darwin, Australia

for £12.99

Early Years of Flight  released on 21 January 2015 which includes:

Five aircraft

Wright Flyer
Bleriot XI
Santos_Dumont 14_bis
Goliescu Avioplan
Handley Page E

Three missions
Additional scenery

for £12.99

Discover Arabia Add-On released 28 January 2015 which includes:

1 Plane
6 Liveries
 44 flight plans

also for £12.99

 

http://store.steampowered.com/app/314160/

 

Hmmmm....

Despite all wailing and gnashing of teeth in this forum at least one developer, First Class Simulations,  is creating FSX-SE DLC with or without a SDK.

 

It’s not “with or without”, it’s with. There is no possible way they created any of these addons without the SDK. You can't create a bgl file without a compiler. Unless they made their own compilers, which is beyond the scope of rights given to them, they must have used the ones Microsoft provided. No doubt DTG has had, and will continue to have access to the full SDK. And on top of that it’s very likely they used a number of freeware development programs to assist in the creation of those addons. They are using tools they inherited from the FSX community to build up their own product, and then prohibiting that same community from using those same tools themselves. The irony is pretty stinging. Their motives I think are obvious. I’m not concerned about people’s ability to buy $15-$30 DLCs from DTG one after one, I’m concerned with the freeware and hobbyist development community being suffocated to death.  

 

Edit: It also has a bleak outlook for payware developers too. What if DTG makes them sign a contract for a distribution agreement in order to use the SE SDK? When a company starts pulling tricks with development tools and platforms, it shouldn't be taken lightly. 

This link, given in another FSX:SE SDK topic, provides good evidence as to what DTG is going to do about this situation <spoiler: nothing, for the matter is (supposedly) out of our hands>.

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/availability-of-sdk-with-fsx-steam-edition.432909/

 

From a paranoid perspective, it seems that DTG is in favor of disabling independent development of payware, freeware or even user mods, of FS products they support.  Extrapolating beyond this is (more) pure speculation.

Despite all wailing and gnashing of teeth in this forum at least one developer, First Class Simulations,  is creating FSX-SE DLC with or without a SDK.

 

 

These are not creations for FSX-SE, unless we are in a time warp.

 

Early Years of Flight was first released around 2008  It is available in a box at FSpilot shop for $9.95, approximately half the Steam price, but roughly the same price as Steam for the download.

 

Discover Arabia was released at simmarket and other sellers in July 2011

 

Around the world in 80 flights was first released on or before January 2009.

 

None of the above were developed for FSX-SE. They are remaindered items DTG has picked up.

 

 

These are not creations for FSX-SE, unless we are in a time warp.

 

Read what i said

 

 

 

Despite all wailing and gnashing of teeth in this forum at least one developer, First Class Simulations, is creating FSX-SE DLC with or without a SDK.

They are not creating. They are re-selling!