PMDG 777 false terrain alarm

[Mike777 163]

Thank you for reply, but it doesnt help :( Still have "Terrain" warning on landing phase.

 

Hi, Alex,

 

Please name the specific airport and runway(s) where the problem is found, and please post the entries for the airport from the WPNavApt.txt and ARPT_RWY.dat files.  They are located in FSX>PMDG>Navdata.  You can open them with Notepad and won't damage them as long as you don't use "File>save" or "File>save as."  Also, any airport or other scenery near the airport.

 

Again, PMDG's moderators require that you sign your full name.

 

 

Thanks,

Mike

[Artur Munteanu 1]

So, would those people who are having a problem please take a look at the entries in the above two files for the problem airports to see if the altitude is incorrect? All these files can be opened and searched w/ Notepad. Just don't edit or save them! This would help narrow down the issue. Please report back.

 

I have this problem on OMDB (Fly Tampa) at runaway 13R aproach. So I've look into the files that you mention, but the altitude is correct in both (and so for all other 3 runaway at OMDB):

 

wpnavapt:

 

OMDB30R13123300 25.247708  55.380933110.9030000032

 

arpt_rwy.dat:

 

RW;30R;25.247708;55.380933;32;11090;300;300;13123

 

And stiil have false terrain alarm. As I mention at the begining at this topic, this issue have started after I upgrade the airac cycle to 1502. The wierd thing is that if I downgrade the airac cycle to 1408 the issue dissapear.

So I'm not so shure that the two files wich you mention are the problem. What do you think?

BTW: the numbers are identical in both files no matter wich airac cycle I use (1502 or 1408).

[Artur Munteanu 1]

 

I've try to look deeper into this problem. There is another add-on wich use the runaways.xml file created with "make runaways" tool form the root of FSX :RAAS. As indicated in the manual of RAAS, after you install a new scenery, to avoid incorect calls problem of runaways or maybe not playing the advisory, you have to run this tool "1. Run the MAKE RUNWAYS tool to refresh your runways database". So I open the file created by "MakeRwys" tool wich is "runaways.xml", and at the same runaway on OMDB - 30R - found this:

 

OMDB,0302,25.247707,55.380978,34,300,13143,110.90

 

As you can see here is 34 and not 32. But a very little difference, I mean we talk about 2 feet, could cause the incorect Terrain call?

 

The difference is bigger with the  30L runaway:

 

ARPT_RWY.dat (navdata folder pmdg) is:

 

RW;30L;25.235919;55.394881;60;11130;300;300;14590

 

runaways.xml (root fsx used by RAAS) is:

 

OMDB,0301,25.235296,55.396034,34,300,14606,111.30

Here we talk about 26 feet difference!

And this put on another logic question:

 

Did RAAS have something to do with the false terrain allarm? :o

[Mike777 163]

I have this problem on OMDB (Fly Tampa) at runaway 13R aproach. So I've look into the files that you mention, but the altitude is correct in both (and so for all other 3 runaway at OMDB):

wpnavapt:

 

OMDB30R13123300 25.247708 55.380933110.9030000032

 

arpt_rwy.dat:

 

RW;30R;25.247708;55.380933;32;11090;300;300;13123

 

And stiil have false terrain alarm. As I mention at the begining at this topic, this issue have started after I upgrade the airac cycle to 1502. The wierd thing is that if I downgrade the airac cycle to 1408 the issue dissapear.

 

So I'm not so shure that the two files wich you mention are the problem. What do you think?

 

BTW: the numbers are identical in both files no matter wich airac cycle I use (1502 or 1408).

 

Artur Munteanu

 

 

 

Hi, Artur,

 

Thanks for going to the trouble of posting this information!

 

I don't have any addon scenery for OMDB, so that may be an important difference. 

 

I set up an approach to 30R with my current data, which is Airac 1503.  I did get some pull up messages on my first try, but this is because the current ILS data is different than my old, default scenery ILS.  I got a little low since I was expecting a GS indication and wrongly thought I was too high :huh:.  Once I tuned the ILS to match the FSX (old) frequency, it worked fine.

 

There are two differences between the data you posted, from wpnavapt.txt, Airac 1502, and what I have (1503): in mine, the altitude is 62 instead of 32, and the runway  length is 14275 instead of 13123. 

DUBAI INTL              OMDB30R14275300 25.247708  55.380931110.9030000062

 

So I put this data into my wpnavapt.txt file, deleted ARPT_RWY.DAT, and reloaded the setup for the approach.  I also reloaded the runway approach in the FMC.  ARPT_RWY.dat did pick up the differences for that runway, both altitude and length.  But again, no issues on an ILS approach.

 

If the numbers between the two airacs are the same, that  is really puzzling.  Could the discrepancy be between the two airport positions in the airports.dat file?? 

 

I am also wondering if it has something to do with your addon scenery?  Maybe it introduces a difference in location or hilly land on the runway approach?  It's easy to disable the scenery without fully deleting it.

 

I doubt RAAS has anything to do with it, but you can try disabling it.  But I think the scenery is more likely.

 

Mike

[Artur Munteanu 1]

 

 

There are two differences between the data you posted, from wpnavapt.txt, Airac 1502, and what I have (1503): in mine, the altitude is 62 instead of 32, and the runway length is 14275 instead of 13123.

DUBAI INTL OMDB30R14275300 25.247708 55.380931110.9030000062

 

Well... I must say that there is something wrong with the airac cycle, because there is no way that on 30R/12L rwy you have that lenght! The 14275 is the lenght of the 30L/12R!!!

"Dubai Airport has two runways, 12R/30L is 4,450 m × 60 m (14,600 ft × 200 ft), 12L/30R is 4,000 m × 60 m (13,120 ft × 200 ft)." (wiki), Also you can look at all charts for Dubai Intl.

I don't know what to say, there are too many variables wich don't mach. Is true that the scenery for Fly Tampa has an expanded area, but cover most of the city of Dubay, but was only aded the photo scenery and buildings, but not the terrain moddelling. And however the airport area, is plan without buldings or hills (it's desert there and sand on Dubai :rolleyes:), so I don't think that the scenery is the problem.

 

[Artur Munteanu 1]

Anyway, here we talk about an error created by something wich has been caused by an unknown factor. So if I think IMO, in this way:

• Did PMDG has something to do with false terrain allarm? - NO
• Did Airac cycle has something to do with false terrain allarm? - Maybe
• Did the scenery airport has something to do with false terrain allarm? - NO
• Did RAAS has something to do with the false alarm? - Maybe
• Did Make runaway tool has something to do with false terrain allarm? - Maybe

So if proceed with the elimination, and do like Sherlock Holmes says:

 

"Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains however improbable must be the truth.", maybe someone could find the node of this issue.

[kevinh 409]

Anyway, here we talk about an error created by something wich has been caused by an unknown factor. So if I think IMO, in this way:

• Did PMDG has something to do with false terrain allarm? - NO

I think that must be a "maybe" too. PMDG have said they are correcting the terrain data for airport elevation. There could be an error in that correction under certain circumstances.

[Sam 68]

So.. did anyone manage to fix it?

[FlyingAxx 2]

Did Make runaway tool has something to do with false terrain allarm? - Maybe

 

So if proceed with the elimination, and do like Sherlock Holmes says:

 

For me MakeRunways is out of the question. It has nothing to do with your false alarms. The produced files are build upon a fully transparent procedure and are documented in the file "Runways.txt". Correction: The following statement was wrong! You even could delete (better rename) all files produced by this tool and your T7 would build the required file itself while starting up. You may want to install the original r4.cvs instead. BTW, I'm wondering why PMDG is working with redundant information from different sources anyway. As far as MakeRunways is concerned, the information is produced only based on the present flight sim installation while the AIRACs are fully independent with this respect. Hence, you can be sure having contradictions.

 

Probably you might want to check whether you are struggling with other airports overlaying each other. In this case I recommend a little tool, produced by Jon Masterson and you'll find it here: http://www.scruffyduck.org/simple-airport-scanner/4584282795.

 

It might even happen that add-on developers are changing the default elevation without telling this to the respective FS. This usually requires at least a Stub-file of your airport in the folder ..<main>..\Scenery\World\scenery as long as the designers are following the SDK (which means just overlaying and not replacing the original files).

[ThrustAsymComp 5]

So.. did anyone manage to fix it?

I have the same issue

 

I uploaded my flight save and panel state, can someone confirm or duplicate?

 

https://spideroak.com/storage/OVPXG4DJMRSXE33BNNPWC5LUN5PTCNBTHAYDS/shared/1254217-29-1009/PMDG_EGPWS_ERROR.zip?59700a9de5a49971dd40ef78a412060e

 

See video that goes with the saves

 

https://vimeo.com/192984062

 

---

 

Bo Chen

[Mike777 163]

 

 

I have the same issue

 

Hi Bo,

 

Two suggestions:

 

1) Make sure you have the most recent version of the PMDG 777 installed, version 1.10.7025, as the earlier posts all came before the release of the latest version in January 2016.  If not, download a complete new installation file and do a full uninstall-reinstall.  Since at the time of the last release, there were actually several releases close together with the same number, make sure the 200LR model file is dated 1/11/2016.

 

2) Go to PMDG/Navdata and delete the file ARPT_RWY.dat.  It is not part of the regular nav data, but rather a cache file for the 777.  It does contain elevation information.  It will rebuild the next time you run the 777.  If you are curious, take a look in the file before you delete it, which can be read in Notepad, and see if the elevation data is off for the airport that is giving you trouble.

 

Mike

[ThrustAsymComp 5]

Hi Bo,

 

Two suggestions:

 

1) Make sure you have the most recent version of the PMDG 777 installed, version 1.10.7025, as the earlier posts all came before the release of the latest version in January 2016.  If not, download a complete new installation file and do a full uninstall-reinstall.  Since at the time of the last release, there were actually several releases close together with the same number, make sure the 200LR model file is dated 1/11/2016.

 

2) Go to PMDG/Navdata and delete the file ARPT_RWY.dat.  It is not part of the regular nav data, but rather a cache file for the 777.  It does contain elevation information.  It will rebuild the next time you run the 777.  If you are curious, take a look in the file before you delete it, which can be read in Notepad, and see if the elevation data is off for the airport that is giving you trouble.

 

Mike

Thanks! the ARPT_RWY fixed it. I don't know how but I think Orbx (or something other third party scenery) messed up my airports...

Seems like this is not a PMDG issue after all. 

 

---

Bo Chen

[Mike777 163]

 

 

Thanks! the ARPT_RWY fixed it. I don't know how but I think Orbx (or something other third party scenery) messed up my airports...

Seems like this is not a PMDG issue after all.

 

Hi, Bo,

 

Glad it's fixed!

 

Mostly, the ARPT_RWY.dat file causes issues with runways not appearing in the FMC or weird runway error messages.  Ths mainly happens when the AFCAD file is old and has different runways from the current situation; the navdata generally has more up-to-date runway information.  However I think similar issues can arise when the AFCAD file has different elevation data from the ARPT_RWY.dat file.

 

Mike