[08FEB15] P3D Pricing Policy - Some facts on this issue...

[Gokau 4]

Robert,

 

It is interesting that you make the battlefield comparison.  A closer example to the FSX->P3D scenerio might be the transition from ps3 to ps4.  EA in this case did offer an upgrade program for battlefield 4.

http://www.battlefield.com/battlefield-4/playstation-4-upgrade

 

PS3 to PS4 is certainly a further jump than FSX to P3D...at least in terms of software architecture.

 

I just bring that up as I agree with most of Corey's points and find the battlefield and FS9 737 to NGX examples to be a bit disingenuous to bring up for this current issue.  Most people would clearly see that the FS9 737 was a completely different product than the NGX.  And with the battlefield franchise there was clearly a discounted upgrade path for ps3 owners to jump to the ps4 platform.  

 

anyway this is probably picky but your examples just struck me as very odd support for your position.  EA has a history of offering these types of discounts and programs.  I'm sure you guys looked at all the pricing options and decided against any upgrade path and that's completely fine.  But if your position was platform switching/upgrade programs weren't common in the software industry i disagree with that completely.

Here's a more comparable scenario, when Windows 8 was released, it temporarily had a price of $40. After a certain period of time it shot up to ~$200, the standard price of a OS. Its the same OS as Windows 7 with a few different things under the hood, but I'm still paying $40 for it. That is what this situation reminds me of.

[Sartanius 399]

Purchased, downloaded, installed, and runs great! Thanks PMDG for licensing the T7 for P3D. We want you guys to stay in business for a long time!

[Jetman67 517]

I personally want to see pmdg around for a long time so im not fussed to pay again

[Richard Sennett 2,499]

Great job PMDG runs great in P3D - very happy customer - price was fair - actually thought it would be a bit more - thanks for the early pricing discount and continued P3D support

[aceridgey 330]

I'm not sure where to go with this one so I will save my questions for another day.

 

Pmdg team ; it is always frequently mentioned that when one buys your product it will be updated constantly as time goes by. Just recently Robert said Ryan has been discussing at length the idea of frequent micro - updates. There was a lot of promise of reduced development times due to the new foundations of code that you did with the ngx.

 

None of this is happening with the aircraft (moving from fsx to fsx se may count towards the idea). I am concerned that we get to a stage where the aircraft we bought fsx will never be updated in this micro update culture (through the operations centre).

 

With x plane, prepared and fsx now all on the table can this be sustainable?

[Werner747 107]

It is far less expensive than I thought it would be to be honest!   I think what should be borne in mind from a development standpoint is simply that if you qualify to use P3D, it is, as RSR said, being constantly developed.   There will be a point in time, not overnight fortunately, where FSX is going to have major compatibility issues with newer OS's and hardware due to the fact that it is not being developed anymore.   P3D will move ahead whilst FSX will not which is sad but true.

 

So I agree with RSR that development-wise and the time/resource capacity issue also factors in, together with the legal issues, and the price seems pretty fair in the end.   Don't get me wrong - I am an FSX use for financial reasons.   I do qualify for P3D, but my system won't run it and the PMDG expansions and frankly, no PMDG, no FSX/P3D is my policy!   So I need a new system and then a new license so purely on that basis, I am out for the moment.

 

Finally, I agree with what one or two of the posters here said - it is your choice to move to a new platform firstly, and secondly, as anyone who is involved in the world of aviation can tell you, it is expensive, whether you do it on a PC or in real life, there is no escaping it.   It is an expensive hobby!   Do whatever fits your budget.

 

Kind regards

[MartinFS 0]

Mr. Robert

You don't have to be sorry about a pricing policy. ;-) it's been done everything what is necessary to support new platform (p3d)I believe. Some folks really need a lesson how development works and what it takes to continue making five star products To make us consumer satisfied. I own all pmdg aircraft for fsx and as I decide to move from fsx to p3d which is different platform, I really don't mind to pay again. But at first it was my decision to change the platform.. Folks who don't want to change they really don't have to. But they should not blame pmdg that they want to charge customers for changing. It's just fair.. Nice example with battlefield.. Keep up a good work pmdg and thanks again for expanding your development.

[Christopher Low 5,341]

To be fair, I don't think that PMDG are trying to shaft anyone with this. It's just that they have more complex licensing issues to address than most addon developers. I assume that the P3D version of the 737NGX will also be released with a one month "discount to FSX price" phase before it returns to the standard P3D price? The only annoying aspect for me is that I will also have to shell out again for the 600/700 addon package, even though these are actually the only two versions that I want. Still, I guess that's life!

[PMDG777 231]

Here's a more comparable scenario, when Windows 8 was released, it temporarily had a price of $40. After a certain period of time it shot up to ~$200, the standard price of a OS. Its the same OS as Windows 7 with a few different things under the hood, but I'm still paying $40 for it. That is what this situation reminds me of.

The thing about this and the battlefield upgrade offer is that Microsoft is a multi-billion dollar company and EA is also a multi-million (possibly billion?) dollar company. PMDG is a minuscule company compared to them. A drop in the ocean. Microsoft and EA can well afford to give these prices at very little cost to them, their drop in profits is a small fraction of their overall profit. PMDG couldn't offer that because of

a) the small market. Everyone would buy it now while it's cheap and PMDG would have very few customers buying it at full price.

b ) the loss PMDG would make by doing this would be quite large for a small company.

[l_jayma 6]

I completely understand and agree with PMDG with the pricing. All things considered, first and foremost they are a business and development takes money along with the systems to keep the lights on as it were. The end products have just been outstanding and the support is great and that comes with a cost attached to it as well. I think we can all name names where the quality is lackluster consistantly with other third-party developers with simple things like solid beta testing missing and no patches to issues that would never be seen in a PMDG product.

[QuantumPilot 0]

I think that I have missed some of the finer details here, but after sitting back and thinking I think I now get it. P3D v1 and v2 might on the surface seem to have a similar architecture to FSX. What eluded me (even though it has been posted a few times) is that the P3D platform is starting to change and will over time diverge from the FSX architecture quite significantly. The 777 product for P3D comes at a (for a limited time) discounted price that covers the future updates to keep it aligned to a dynamic and changing platform architecture. 

 

If for example (hypothetically) P3D one day offers an API for a weather radar and generic monthly Navdata updates, then the 777 product could be enhanced to make use of that in the platform without the simmer needing to buy a 3rd party product (remember a hypothetical scenario here).

 

A few years from now, the P3D architecture might be as different from FSX as X-Plane is now. I also understand now that if PMDG releases say the 777 next week for X-Plane, I would have to buy it and pay full price for that platform. The murky veil now has been that P3D at this point in time SEEMS similar to FSX, but one has to look at it over the next 2 years and understand that various parts of it will change. The API and even SimConnect could change for the better and proper addons will have to follow. Cheap ports will at that point fall from the moving train. Wait for that time and see how many of the current free dual installer products will then start to charge separately. It is simply not conceivable that product XYZ will offer a FSX version AND a "free" 64 bit P3D version for the price of one.

 

FSX is like a fun pub where everyone knows your name and we will sit there and enjoy the music. P3D is a train that is parked next to the pub. It will soon depart and move on to different pubs. One can buy a ticket now for $89 that includes free drinks for at least 2 years...  

 

Thank you Robert for an insightful post that made me sit back and think.

 

After payday I shall click on the buy button, not because anyone forces me to, but because I want to invest in a long term future with these products. 

 

P.S. That 737 NGX will also reach out to my wallet and rip out the credit card.

 

</ 2 cents >

[Wasp32 1]

I took delivery of my 777-200LR yesterday on a flight from KPAE to KTPA.  With reasonable settings, I achieved no less than 23fps with all of the FTX-Orbx bells and whistles along with Active Sky Next.  I had the OME bell going off approaching Tampa due to my photo-real scenery of the area, but again never dropped below 23fps.  Was able to taxi to where I wanted to park and power her down without an OME.  

 

I know that everyone has a different flight simulator budget, expectations and requirements for product complexity and quality.  PMDG has delivered exactly what they had promised.  A realistic high quality simulation of the Boeing 777 aircraft on a flight simulator platform that is most likely the future of desk top flight simulation.

 

I appreciate Rob's clarification about pricing.  He has proven that he is always willing to keep the community informed.  I do not feel that Rob needs to offer justification about PMDG pricing.  If PMDG finds that the demand for their products does not correspond with anticipated profits, I am sure that they will adjust their pricing structure accordingly.

 

This is my first time posting on this forum.  Stopping short of a rant, I would rather PMDG spend their time continuing to develop amazing products for the future platform of flight simulation than justifying wanting to be compensated fairly in a capitalistic market place.  

 

I look forward to PMDG continuing to develop high quality product and am happy to add to their future success and profits.

 

MRH

[Ericd 4]

Thanks for this post, Robert. I really don't understand the NGX and FS9 737 example to be honest, though. Those were technologically entirely different developments from what I understand, whereas the 777 for P3D is mostly just a re-license. That's where the disconnect is for me and probably others.

 

At any rate, I do think your P3D pricing is starting to miss the mark for one of Prepar3D's purposes though: education. Academic products for students normally come at a discount or in a price range that students can afford, and I think you guys missed the mark here on that.

 

I really appreciate your products, but they're really not a price point that is justified for me anymore.

Hi Cory, 

I don't know where you live, but here in the Netherlands one book for  highschool is sometimes more expensive than one PMDG product.  Speaking about prices for education.....

Sure it is an expensive product, but if I compare it with the price of other FSX products, and I see the depth of the simulation, I think it is worth the money.

And the promise that it will be 64 bit convinced me even more to buy this one.

Desperately waiting for the 737. Expensive, no doubt.

 

Regards

 

Eric

[stevekirks 3]

 

 

PMDG has always been on the high end of pricing in our marketplace, and we have always required individuals to purchase a new license when moving to a new platform.  While some felt that a discount was "owed" and have since accused us of "treating our customers badly" the reality is that we have always provided top tier products, complete-and-unhobbled products that do not require you to cherry pick functionality, and we have always provided continual, live support while also engaging with our customers directly and honestly in our forum.

 

PMDG Staff:

 

I appreciate the separate pricing and no conversion offer.  Different platforms with different audiences mean different rules.  PMDG software is not an entitlement and I'm happy to "pay for professionalism".  I would love to see PMDG customer base segmentation and a place for the users that wish to be...how do I say this...more professional and less game-ish.

 

Overall, I'm a FSX customer that is happy to see companies like yours charge for your efforts.  In a world of free games for your phones with in-app purchases, quality work work stands out and deserves to be rewarded.  The pricing policy has helped me see that I'm likely not a PMDG customer in the future--my FSX install will give me plenty of fun for a few years more--but just because I don't want to follow your direction doesn't mean you're wrong.

 

Steve Kirks

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

I didn't understand at first but now I get the picture. PDMG has setup their P3D porfolio as a self-sustainable structure. Meaning P3D licenses and product is finance by P3D dollars in the same way FSX did. They have to be able to continue an evolving platform (P3D) and future upgrade while the FSX platform is a stand still for many years to come.

 

I am not happy about the price but I bought it anyway because I want PMDG to stay in business and continue developing on the P3D platform for many years to come. I have thousands of hours ahead of me and 89$ is pennies/hr. It's a great return on investment for a none entertaining product :-)