[08FEB15] P3D Pricing Policy - Some facts on this issue...

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Theese posts started a civil and peaceful confrontation trying to explain the reasons why I feel something like buy again an already owned product, with some my questions on one side and some answers on the other side.

 

While I understand that they may have been civil and peaceful, we do not allow the discussion of pricing policy here. Those posts get removed.

[Nyxx 6,993]

we do not allow the discussion of pricing policy here. Those posts get removed

 

Way not just lock it then as a statement if people are not aloud to voice there options if they do not like it or agree with it.

 

What happened to freedom of speech, is it now blow hot air at us or get your reply deleted. 

 

 

From a man that knows what he is talking about.

 

JV (Orbx)reply to a topic on PMDG pricing for P3D

"I have very strong feelings about customers being charged twice for the same product without substantial recoding required.

I don't want this topic taking up any further space on my company's forum so I am locking it. "

[IUBrian 151]

Putting aside comparisons, analogies, and licensing agreements, when PMDG sells you a T7 for FSX, they're warrantying a product that will work in FSX, a static, non-evolving platform. EVEN IF P3D were today identical to FSX, requiring nothing from PMDG to make it work in P3D, it is a continually evolving platform necessitating not only a continued commitment in support, but in development to ensure it will continue to work in P3D. Without engaging in a specific pricing debate, I think that fact alone means that in terms of total overall development, P3D is a completely different platform in the long term, justifying a different price - you're not paying just for today, you're paying for tomorrow, an entirely different proposition from FSX from a business perspective.

 

I'm also not a programmer, but I suspect the commitment required to ensure aircraft continues to work versus scenery is completely different.

[Nyxx 6,993]

Sorry I totally disagree.

The NGX worked in version 2.2 PMDG made the 777 not work. Now they made it work! I don't buy into that it takes PMDG to make the 777 and NGX long to make it work in P3D.

 

I do agree that they have more "on going costs" with P3D and as a new product can cost more to buy than a fsx version. But there are fundamentally the same aircraft probably with 98% the same code, so the people that have already bought the FSX version imo should not have to pay the same price as they did before for fundamentally the same product. 

 

I have no problem with the price as a stand alone product for P3D, but I have a huge problem when I have the fundamentally same product and told to pay the same again to get it to work in P3D.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Way not just lock it then as a statement if people are not aloud to voice there options if they do not like it or agree with it.

 

People are allowed to voice opinions. They're allowed to say I don't like it, or I don't mind it, or I support it. Where it goes bad is when people go into comparisons, discuss prices, or similar. Then it devolves into a debate that does not have a place here.

 

 

 

What happened to freedom of speech, is it now love it or get your reply deleted.

 

I've addressed this before. Freedom of speech is not truly free speech like a lot of people think it is. Freedom of speed is freedom from restricted speech from the government. People are protected from backlash from the government for speaking their minds, usually about said government. This idea stemmed from civilizations that were tired of restrictions and punishments on speaking out against the government establishment.

 

This freedom starts, and ends, with the government.

 

If I were to walk into my boss's office right now and tell him that I hated him, that he was worthless and that I deserved his job instead, I am allowed to do so. The government fully supports that freedom, but it only protects me from retribution from itself. The government has no power between myself and my boss. As such, if my boss decided to fire me for what I had said to him, no matter what people think about what free speech is or isn't, he is fully within his right as an employer to do so.

 

In the United States, that freedom also extends to a few other things, to include assembly and petition. This essentially covers a right to protest. That right to protest exists in just about any public space. Public space here in the States is essentially government-owned land. If your protest happened to move onto private land, you could legally be asked to stop the protest, or leave and continue elsewhere.

 

Similarly, this forum is a private forum (owned by AVSIM). There are rules here that can restrict what speech is allowed and what speech is not allowed. In our case, we prefer to avoid certain topics. Discussion or debates about pricing aren't allowed. Period. End.

[Don t moderate me this way 882]

Just to add some fuel to the fire: Discussion of PMDG forum moderating policies isn't allowed, either.  

 

See rule #8: http://forum.avsim.net/topic/361816-pmdg-forum-rules-please-read-before-posting/

[Nyxx 6,993]

Discussion or debates about pricing aren't allowed. Period. End

 

Topic title

P3D Pricing Policy - Some facts on this issue

So if we cannot debate the topic why is it not a locked topic then? It should just be a statement and Locked then?

 

O btw the freedom of speech here is to say I don't agree with this policy don't twist it to someone else, ( your "hate" to your boss) you can say to your boss "I think this might be wrong" with a explanation why, it should not get you fired and if you get your point over he should be able to see your pov.

 

Nothing wrong with that.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Topic title

P3D Pricing Policy - Some facts on this issue

So if we cannot debate the topic why is it not a locked topic then? It should just be a statement and Locked then?

 

Because people can respond without getting into debates.

 

O btw the freedom of speech here is to say I don't agree with this policy don't twist it to someone saying a "hate" PMDG (or your boss) you can say to your boss "I think this might be wrong with a explanation"

 

Nothing wrong with that.

 

Yes and no. I could also go into my boss's office and say "I think this might be wrong" and provide an explanation. I'm fully within my right to do that. I am NOT protected against reprisal from him or the company. Again, freedom of speech is not truly free in the private realm. Freedom of speech is the protection of the individual against the government, or against any person attempting to restrict speech in the public realm.

 

For what it's worth, I studied law and Conn Law at university, along with Econ. Trying to argue the pricing or freedom of speech issue here really only proves to me how little people actually know about these topics.

 

As a final word, you might want to review the AVSIM ToS:

 Freedom Of Speech: AVSIM is not a democracy, and there is no such thing as "Freedom of Speech" in our forums. If you believe that you are entitled to that freedom without restriction and that you should be able to do and say as you please, then reconsider... Please do NOT register.

I'd sooner remove an individual member from a discussion than halting the ability to respond for everyone, simply because a small group is too inconsiderate to follow the rules.

[Nyxx 6,993]

Am sure Kyle you know a lot more about freedom of speech than me Kyle. But since the topic is not locked for people to reply to then as long as someone are civil and don't over step AVSIM rules of use, then your saying "Discussion or debates about pricing aren't allowed. Period. End". 

 

So lock it then and delete all replys.

 

BTW Kyle when are you doing another you tube vid, its been far to long.

 

 

At above post, Yes it was deleted so was my reply to it. Funny really because your example about office was so to the point, you don't have to pay the full price to get the next office you buy an upgrade. It really was not a good example or was it a perfect example?  

[PMDG777 231]

 

Because people can respond without getting into debates.

 

 

Yes and no. I could also go into my boss's office and say "I think this might be wrong" and provide an explanation. I'm fully within my right to do that. I am NOT protected against reprisal from him or the company. Again, freedom of speech is not truly free in the private realm. Freedom of speech is the protection of the individual against the government, or against any person attempting to restrict speech in the public realm.

 

For what it's worth, I studied law and Conn Law at university, along with Econ. Trying to argue the pricing or freedom of speech issue here really only proves to me how little people actually know about these topics.

 

As a final word, you might want to review the AVSIM ToS:

I'd sooner remove an individual member from a discussion than halting the ability to respond for everyone, simply because a small group is too inconsiderate to follow the rules.

I agree with you completely Kyle. Unfortunately solving this whole issue is never going to happen. You convince one person then next thing someone else comes along without reading any prior information and rants about the same issue. 

[Wobbie 938]

Oh, I also mentioned that an 8 year old game & more recently released slightly updatedone are not professional sims, you can expect to pay more for a professional add-on.

 

There, no names mentioned!

[mgh 89]

 

 

I see my post was also deleted!

 

You still haven't  signed it either!

[Wobbie 938]

? What do I sign? Never had to do that before..

 

Signed:

Robin

:rolleyes:

[Nyxx 6,993]

yes you need to read T & C of posting here . P3D is not some super "professional " version its just fsx with new code added to it and code changed over time. Its great for us all the same. If ACE had carried on developing fsx you would not of call it a "professional add-on." 

 

​Go into your profile and in there you will see signature, add your name in there, hope that helps. 

[Christopher Low 5,353]

You need to sign each post with your full name, Robin. That includes the surname :smile: