77W RTE2 ETOPS data entry

[G-CIVA 62]

No probs ... & we never touched RTE 2 once :blink:

[mosteen 111]

Gotcha, thanks again

[downscc 1,327]

 

 

Plot your ETP LATLON on a FIX Page & the Time in ZULU overhead the same ETP in the same FIX Page - that way if you are going to early or late the green doughnut will move forward or behind the said FIX on the ND - also useful - ETOPS is all about time.

 

I really like this, gonna try it next trip... LOL your description of the diversion to Cold Bay... reminded me of 'The High and The Mighty.'

[ddswh1pk0s 8]

Interesting thread didn't know you could enter a time on the same fix page as the ETP will try that on my next flight

[G-CIVA 62]

Just to highlight the relationship between plotted LATLONs & plotted ARPTs using the FIX Page & PREDICTED ETAs entered at LSK 6R on the FIX Page(es) I have taken a couple of 'screenies' as I make my may across the Pacific today ...

 

The first picture shows the plotted ETOPS ENTRY point entered into FIX Page 2/4 in relation to KSFO & a 420NM range ring around it (420NM represents 1hrs still air flying time where the aircraft enters the ETOPS area). 

 

The PFPX OFP gave a LATLON for this ETOPS Entry Point (EEP) & an ETA which is taken from the take off time.  By 'summing' the leg times on the PLOG you can enter the time into LSK6L in the same FIX Page & see the relationship between the plotted EEP & the ETA.   As you can see the green 'doughnut' is placed directly over the plotted FIX showing out ETOPS entry point.

 

 

By that time we should have contacted our dispatcher & confirmed our ETOPS Alternate suitability regarding weather etc.

 

The next picture shows our first ETOPS pair of KSFO & CYVR with the ETP plotted & the associated ETA displayed.  As both airports are within the range of the ND I have drawn a 420NM (1hr) circle around them:

 

 

This picture Shows the ALTN Page.  The DIVERT NOW> prompt is already set up for KSFO so if required a few presses of a button & we are on our way the nearest alternate:

 

 

The flight is progressing well ... we are well into the ETOPs 207 regime & the Alternates are now CYVR & PANC & they have along with the others for the route have been entered into the ALTN Page.  The ARPT Button on the EFIS on my side has been pressed & as you can see small blue arrows now point to these chosen ARPTs.  My personal choice is to not keep these arrows displayed permanently as I like an uncluttered ND (like my small brain!)  The distances are now huge & we are rapidly approaching the point where range rings drawn around ARPTs plotted into FIX Pages become in my own mind more of a hindrance than a help so while I still enter the ARPTs into the FIX Pages I dispense with the actual range rings (A note for the 744 v 2.0 - range rings can only be drawn out to 511NM in any case IRL).

 

 

We never touched RTE 2 once.  Hope this makes things clearer.

[Richard McDonald Woods 168]

Steve,

 

Many thanks for your explanation. Certainly something to chew on.

 

Also your graphic and poetic diversion description was wonderful!

 

Cheers, Richard

[mosteen 111]

+1

 

Thanks for taking the time Steve!

[G-CIVA 62]

No problems ... always happy to offer an opinion.

 

The only other point I would make here regarding 'tactical' or lower modes of automation versus higher or 'strategic' modes of automation is a caveat regarding the use of HDG SEL whilst in the Polar Latitudes:

 

The primary roll mode for polar operations should be LNAV, which may be used with the heading reference switch in the NORM position.

 

When entering the Polar Region automatic switching to a true north reference occurs at various latitudes dependant on the navigation capability of the aircraft.  It is annunciated by a flashing white box around the word TRU on the ND.

 

A TRUE heading reference can also be selected inside and outside the Polar Region with the manual selection of the Heading Reference Switch from NORM to TRUE.  The ND displays a green box around the word MAG to annunciate a change back to magnetic reference when leaving the Polar region.

 

HDG SEL/HOLD and TRK SEL/HOLD are functional but require they both require the manual selection of the Heading Reference Switch from NORM to TRUE.

 

Deviations from planned route may be accomplished in TRK SEL or HDG SEL (for WX avoidance or due to high terrain).

 

The use of the DIVERT NOW> prompt on the ALTN Page is still extant.

[Richard McDonald Woods 168]

Are the ALTN ETAs based on stiil air, much as the ETOPS calculations, or on forecasted WX?

[G-CIVA 62]

AFIK the ETPs are based on forecasted conditions taking into account the WX conditions predicted at the time the aircraft is expected overhead said position.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

AFIK the ETPs are based on forecasted conditions taking into account the WX conditions predicted at the time the aircraft is expected overhead said position.

 

I'd agree with this.

 

ALTN ETAs are calculated by the same method the PROG page calculates things, I'd believe. I'm not quite sure what all goes into that, but I know that it does take some actual conditions into account.

[mosteen 111]

Steve, I see you are flying an Emirates 77F, and you're using 420nm as your 60 min.

 

How do one find this range distance for a certain type? For example, I mostly fly the 77W (G-STBJ). I have used 463nm, blatently found somewhere, but I know that is a value originally referred to the 772, and might not be correct even for the 772...

 

Also, you are using CYVR and KSFO as ETOPS alternates, I struggle with getting my head around the ETOPS pairs in PFPX, usually I fly NA, and I never have understud the reason for having more than one ETOPS ALTN "on each side" of the pond.

 

But then again, I'm an old threeholer guy who just recently lost my job, trying as best as I can to adjust to the twins

 

Cheers,

[Richard McDonald Woods 168]

Mo,

 

ALTNs are usually chosen as those fields which have services sufficient/contracted for the airline, within their ETOPS certification for the aircraft. So, on the East Atlantic, I usually use EIDW, on the west I use CYQX. But an airline may/have to also choose intermediate airfields to stay within ETOPS certification

.

Cheers, Richard

 

PS What do you mean by 'losing your job? Sounds drastic!

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

How do one find this range distance for a certain type? For example, I mostly fly the 77W (G-STBJ). I have used 463nm, blatently found somewhere, but I know that is a value originally referred to the 772, and might not be correct even for the 772...

 

I know you asked Steve, but the value is simple "one hour's flying time," so it would actually depend more on the TAS you'll be flying. As such, you could probably change it daily to be more precise, but it's a simple rule of thumb (at least when it comes to displaying the ETP Entry/Exit Points).

 

 

 

Also, you are using CYVR and KSFO as ETOPS alternates, I struggle with getting my head around the ETOPS pairs in PFPX, usually I fly NA, and I never have understud the reason for having more than one ETOPS ALTN "on each side" of the pond.

 

ETOPS Alternates and ETOPS Pairs can be slightly different concepts. ETOPS Pairs simply define the regulatory requirement to remain in ETOPS compliance. In practice, I usually only have a single pair for an Atlantic crossing (usually CYYT and EINN), though I'd have additional alternates through that segment (CYYT, BGBW/BIKF depending on how far north the NATs are that day, and LPLA if it's more south that day).

 

For the VOZ1 flight, I used KLAX and PHNL for the first pair, and PHNL and (I think) NCRG for the second. This allowed me to remain in ETOPS coverage for the full flight. The ETOPS pairs are really just there to satisfy the requirement to remain within the ETOPS range (in minutes) of suitable airfields. You can have additional alternates on top of those, or you could just make all of your alternates your pairs (requires more work, but is probably more accurate/helpful in the case of emergency).

 

I'd defer to the knowledge of a certed dispatcher, though. I'm just going off of what I've picked up on my own here.

[mosteen 111]

Brilliant Kyle, thanks!

 

@Richard:

 

A bit internal that one  In BAVirtual we discontinued the BA World Cargo last year, as the real world counterpart also was terminated. Thus our 747F and MD11F's was taken out of business. I had the pleasure of serving BAVirtual as the Chief Pilot for our MD11 fleet.

 

Cheers,