This may be really dumb????

[Guest Philip Olson]

I just had an idea, maybe a dumb one, but an idea none the less, and I thought that I would run it by some of you. I was thinking about full motion sims and what it would require to make something like that on a smaller, cheaper scale and I had a thought, air. I wonder if it would be possible to have something like a seat cushion that has an air compressor attached that would be able to regulate pressure in various compartments in that cushion. If this could be done you could sort of simulate turns, climbs and descents, maybe even a degree of turbulence. I know that this would not be a great tool to simulate motion but it would give an added dimension that we do not currently have. What are your thoughts?Philip Olsonhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg

[wsieffert 0]

Many of the military jet fighter simulators use a g-suit/g-seat configuration. The pilot connects his g-suit connection to the simulator's connection. The simulation uses aerodynamic variables to determine the amount/direction of motion to inflate/deflate the pilot's g-suit and the g-seat cushions.As a matter of fact, g-suit/g-seat jet fighter simulators, along with an outside visual system are better than using a motion based simulator for these aircraft. For slow flight, large multiengine, and helicopter simulators, motion based simulators are used since the pilot(s) don't wear g-suits and the aircraft are not normally flown with excessive g forces. All in all, the best flight simulators also have outside visual systems, in concert with whatever simulated motion system is used.W. Sieffert

[Guest TerryT]

I would go along with what has been said having worked on Air Force simulators (fighters).The F-4E and F-111D had basic motion systems compared to today

[wsieffert 0]

Your showing your age Terry, like I'm the one to talk! Some of the flight simulator's I managed were the T-34C, T-44A, TH-57A/C, TA-4J, T-2C, F-14A/B/D.W. Sieffert

[Guest Philip Olson]

That is really interesting, I did not know that they actually used something like that for a sim. I can imagine that these would be prone to break downs and all sorts of problems. I do still wonder if maybe someone could produce a low cost version that might be usable for us arm chair pilots? Maybe I will try to look into some of the things needed to produce a system such as this and see if it is possible. Does anyone here have any expertise in any related field? Who knows, if it is possible maybe I will give it a go and try to produce a few. Thanks for the information!Philip Olsonhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/supporter.jpg

[Guest TerryT]

Philip, I remember seeing a year or two ago in one of the forums, a movable chair that you could mount your monitor, keyboard, and joystick to. You might do a search in the forums and the Home Cockpit Support Forum in particular. Some of the sims being built in that forum look as good as the real thing. Terry

[Guest]

yes, I remember that contraption too. Cost about a grand I think (without the computers) for what was basically some steel piping and a few electric motors.

[Guest TerryT]

W, I put in nearly 12 years between the F-4E and F-111D. Besides repairing and operating them, I also was a Quality Assurance (QA) inspector and tech order librarian for the F-111D. My last two years with the sims was on an engineering team that evaluated field modifications and full factory rebuilds. When that position converted to civil service GS-11, (my maint slot converted to civilian maint two years prior) I finished my career managing a hospital radiology department. I am still amazed how much can be done with one desktop computer running a $50 simulation as compared to the entire room full of computer cabinets back a mire twenty years ago.Terry

[wsieffert 0]

Hi Terry,You said a mouthful, "I am still amazed how much can be done with one desktop computer running a $50 simulation as compared to the entire room full of computer cabinets back a mire twenty years ago."In the twenty years I worked in flight simulation, the simulators went from using telefax machines for input to dumb terminals, to desktops. The computers running the show went from main-frames, minis, to desktops.Since I retired from Navy Civil Service in Jan01, I can't imagine the advances in simulation with the computer systems being produced today.The experiences you had with the F-4E and the F-111D, were probably circa 1960 to 1970 vintage equipment. Computers were in their infancy compared to today.Lastly, simulators are driven hard and put away wet. Imagine having emergency procedures practiced over and over again. We had some of the same aircraft equipment in the simulators. The equipment didn't last near as long in the simulator as it did in the aircraft due to the repetition of use.W. Sieffert

[Guest TerryT]

W, I remember the old ASR 28 teletype machines we use to talk to the computers. Our Sims built by Singer Link also used the GP-4B (Blue boxes) computers. The F-4 had one and the F-111D had two computers tied together via a linkage system that in it's self was a computer. They had a keyboard on the computer that could be accessed in I think octal or hexadecimal. The radar land mass was a grey scale (F-4) and a Tri-color (F-111) in order to show terrain alt/reflectance. The F-111 had a separate computer just for the radar and the only way it would run was to have the motherboard installed upside down which caused the chips (one of the first systems with ICs) to get loose and stop the machine. We could not solder them in because they were not reliable enough and had to be changed out almost as often as the old tubes did in the analog devices. (Sims) Our visual system on the F-111 was run off a Sell series computer with an 18" multi disk pack with a whopping 300 Mb of storage (both sides and 4 to 6 disks stacked as high as a cake). We also used the 3/4