[03MAR15] PMDG's First Product for XPlane...

[tf51d 284]

The program itself (X-Plane) is a 32-bit program. There's nothing you can do to change that. The amount of memory available - bit-wise - for the program to use will always be 32 (until they release a 64 bit version). Adding RAM, while it might increase performance, will not give you more of a buffer from OOM errors.

 

Kyle XP10 has been a 64bit APP since version 10.20. I do believe they have been releasing a 32bit version along side it. I stopped using XP10 for a while now, so I'm not sure if they still do.

 

Edit: Never mind, I see you corrected yourself in a later post.

 

Tom Cain

[Scramjet333 39]

Yep, X-Plane 10 is 64-bit, and multi-threaded. So a monster PC with dual octa-core Xeon CPUs, 32 GB RAM and SLI-ed GTX 980s with 4GB VRAM each would produce a substantial improvement in frame rates in X-Plane, as compared to an off-the-shelf, run-of-the-mill PC with a Core i5 and GT 620. In FSX, there would be an improvement, yes, but certainly not half as large as that in X-Plane 10.

 

And dem curved, banked runways... wow. As a side note, X-Plane 10.35 is out, with hundreds of new Lego-brick airports from the Gateway. So FSX fanatics need no longer complain about the lack of airport buildings. The ones in Germany are especially impressive.

[Slayer 190]

The essence of the post is correct: VAS is not related to RAM.

 

Regardless, X-Plane installs both a 32 bit and 64 bit version. If you have an OOM with the 64 bit version, you have quite the problem on your hands.

http://www.x-plane.com/?article=x-plane-64-bit-faq

No, I exhausted physical memory. It would be nearly impossible to run out of VAS on a 64 bit program...thats like 4 terrabytes or so I think...so yes it is an OOM

[scandinavian13 5,192]

No, I exhausted physical memory. It would be nearly impossible to run out of VAS on a 64 bit program...thats like 4 terrabytes or so I think...so yes it is an OOM

 

Interesting. I figured we'd all Moore's Lawed that out of the equation.

[Tomcat_F-14D 2]

So a monster PC with dual octa-core Xeon CPUs, 32 GB RAM and SLI-ed GTX 980s with 4GB VRAM each would produce a substantial improvement in frame rates in X-Plane, as compared to an off-the-shelf, run-of-the-mill PC with a Core i5 and GT 620.

No, not exactly.

Problem is that actually, when installed on SLI/Crossfire configurations, not only X-Plane doesn't take any advantages comparing to single GPU systems, in some cases you could even get worst results... Ben explained this problem on his blog months and months ago, so I hope they'll find a way in order to gain all the advantages of a multi-GPU system.

[Robert McDonald 167]

Very cool indeed.  Waited a LONG time for PMDG in XPlane 10.  It can only be great news that you're 'bringing PMDG quality' to the aftermarket aircraft xplane offerings!

 

Love to have the NGX someday as well -- the magenta crowd is hoping for the legend to migrate to XP10!

[BrzI 26]

Really looking forward to this...

[Robert McDonald 167]

No, not exactly.

Problem is that actually, when installed on SLI/Crossfire configurations, not only X-Plane doesn't take any advantages comparing to single GPU systems, in some cases you could even get worst results... Ben explained this problem on his blog months and months ago, so I hope they'll find a way in order to gain all the advantages of a multi-GPU system.

 

Multi-GPU systems AFAIK have to run workstation OS, not Windows 7/8.  AFAIK, XPlane is not designed or optimized to run on Server/Client OS'es.

[Tomcat_F-14D 2]

Hello Robert,

I'm not a gamer so I never tried that but I do know some people that enjoy multi-GPU configurations on their Win7 systems (usually SLI with two or even three GPUs)... for sure I prefer your triple pc solution over SLI/Crossfire configuration, even if X-Plane would support that in the future.

But we're going OT.

[MattNischan 3,778]

Multi-GPU systems AFAIK have to run workstation OS, not Windows 7/8.  AFAIK, XPlane is not designed or optimized to run on Server/Client OS'es.

 

This is simply not true. I'm sure there was mis-wording here, but just to clarify:

 

Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 are non-server operating systems (i.e. desktop/workstation). All three fully support multi-GPU using either NVidia SLI or AMD Crossfire.

 

Windows 2008, 2008 R2, 2012, and 2012 R2 are server operating systems. They are not optimized for desktop/workstation tasks and favor background threads. Currently GeForce drivers are not supported on these operating systems. You can get hardware accelerated GPU support if you have the correct type of card, such as a Quadro or Titan, but I would not recommend it, unless you are using them to run a render farm.

 

As far as X-Plane is concerned, it will of course attempt to make the use of multiple GPUs if they are present. HOWEVER, the current deferred rendering implementation makes it difficult to share resources between multiple cards, so you may actually see performance decrease.

 

Source: I'm a senior sysadmin.

 

-Matt Nischan

[tf51d 284]

 

 

Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 are non-server operating systems (i.e. desktop/workstation). All three fully support multi-GPU using either NVidia SLI or AMD Crossfire.

 

You are correct that all three OS's support SLI and Crossfire, but the application must also be built to support them as well for it to work. Neither FSX or XP10 are (Though I'm not sure if LM added support to P3D) You may get a little help with AA , especially with AMD's Crossfire but that's it, The sim as is will not take full advantage of SLI/Crossfire benefits.

 

Tom Cain

[JRBarrett 3,070]

Interesting. I figured we'd all Moore's Lawed that out of the equation.

With high-res HD mesh add-ons, and especially with the changes to DSF rendering of distant terrain that will finally be coming in XP 10.40, users will probably need at least 32GB of system RAM to avoid physical memory exhaustion (if not more). 16GB will not be enough by a long shot.

[Robert McDonald 167]

This is simply not true. I'm sure there was mis-wording here, but just to clarify:

 

Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 are non-server operating systems (i.e. desktop/workstation). All three fully support multi-GPU using either NVidia SLI or AMD Crossfire.

 

Windows 2008, 2008 R2, 2012, and 2012 R2 are server operating systems. They are not optimized for desktop/workstation tasks and favor background threads. Currently GeForce drivers are not supported on these operating systems. You can get hardware accelerated GPU support if you have the correct type of card, such as a Quadro or Titan, but I would not recommend it, unless you are using them to run a render farm.

 

As far as X-Plane is concerned, it will of course attempt to make the use of multiple GPUs if they are present. HOWEVER, the current deferred rendering implementation makes it difficult to share resources between multiple cards, so you may actually see performance decrease.

 

Source: I'm a senior sysadmin.

 

-Matt Nischan

 

Matt, you're right, my post had the word "GPU" (my bad) instead of "CPU".  My point was not with respect to multi GPUs but multi CPUs.  The OP mentioned a 'monster' system with dual Octagon CPUs and SLI GPUS.  

 

AFAIK, you have to run server-based software if you have a multi-CPU system.  This would EXCLUDE Win7/8/10.  With regard to XPlane and it's ancient cousin FSX, I am certain your point is well made, SLI is useless or even a detriment.

 

With high-res HD mesh add-ons, and especially with the changes to DSF rendering of distant terrain that will finally be coming in XP 10.40, users will probably need at least 32GB of system RAM to avoid physical memory exhaustion (if not more). 16GB will not be enough by a long shot.

 

We have all been waiting for the "mud on the horizon" to go away, Ben S. (of XPlane Dev team) has strongly hinted that fix is 'on the horizon' (no pun intended) and thrown out the 10.40 version number you allude to.  That said, I'd be astounded (and yet thrilled) if that fix happens any time soon.  I am among the MANY who are praying for sooner rather than later.  I have 32gb x 3 render PCs installed and waiting...

 

Another salient concern is the problems with programing proper VNav/LNav magenta-line autopilot behavior for XPlane tubeliners.  This has created a big thorn for some third party avionics firms, which remains imperfect even today.  IMHO, this might be part of what led PMDG to bring the Steam-gauge DC 6B to the XPlane party in lieu of their wildly popular NGX and Triple-7 models, both of which have done well in FSX. The NGX was recently released for P3D v2.

 

If you're a tubeliner fan and don't have a lot of physical hardware to interface, you can't do better than PMDG in my view.  Once you start using things like MCP/EFIS panels, TQ's, real scale FMCs, radios, overhead panels and so forth, you likely will need something more esoteric to interface that hardware to your sim-of-choice.  I'm a fan of Sim-Avionics from FlightDeck Solutions, but there are other choices out there as well. If you're a cockpit builder, you're wanting third-party avionics.

 

Without getting into the age old debacle between 64-bit (Xplane) and 32-bit (P3D and FSX), XPlane currently enjoys a huge edge in terms of being able to address a much larger VAS (Virtual Address Space) because of the 64-bit advantage.  In addition, XPlane is VERY V-Ram (Video Ram) hungry... and more is definitely better.  4GB is the current price point 'sweet spot' in GPU for XPlane 10, better if money is not an object to go 6GB on the Titan or Titan Black nVidia cards. 

 

Still, P3D has a world that is extremely well-populated with lego airports, and can handle the four seasons, both of which remain as shortcomings in the competitor from Laminar.  

 

When you throw in some of the very nice ORBX vector landclass packages (particular favorite Orbx NorCal), your GA world becomes VERY close to the RW.  This again is a bit of an issue in XPlane.  Tubeliner captains are not as concerned but GA enthusiasts appreciate landmarks that are depicted in the proper place. Both platforms offer freeware/payware airport upgrades, some of which are spectacularly rendered. 

 

Again, to each their own.  I am an XPlane fan, but am looking hard at also flying P3D for GA training.  I have set up my system to be able to fly either sim with a couple of mouse-clicks.

[Longranger 148]

Well since his devweloper blog entry ( http://developer.x-plane.com/2015/03/extended-dsfs-in-x-plane-10-40/#comment-10421 ) it is pretty certain that the extended DSF model in the next beta. It is not a fix, since it was not broken, it was simply a feature. A well known and understood limitation.

 

Concerning multi GPU support, Don't get you hopes up. Most methods for multi GPUs help if the GPUs are computing power limited. But X-Plane and in fact most flight simulators are much more VRAM limited and the VRAM of an SLI system is the VRAM of the smallest graphics card of the system.

[fogboundturtle 2,708]

I just wish the first PMDG product on x-plane wasn't a clock shop. It is should an handful to fly and managed with only 1 pilot.