How many of you out there have actually flown a real Airbus or Boeing simulator? If you have, did you find that it enhanced or was detrimental to your enjoyment of FS2004? Or, was it neither?I could only imagine the excitement and thrill of a couple of hours in a United Airlines 747-400 simulator, for example, only to come home to a copy of FS2004 with a definite emotional letdown, which, hypothetically, would never rise to the pre-real-simulator experience again.Just curious,RH

What I'd like to see in the replies are people who've flown in a real simulator and have one of the popular add-ons, just to see how they compare. If posters could avoid add-on to add-on comparisons, and just share their observations between their add-ons and real simulator experiences, that would be all the better--and would keep the thread pointed in a MSFS direction.-John

For me it was the opposite. I "flew" in the B737-400 sim (was scheduled for the B744, but that went south at the last moment with a UA requirement). I came home and fired up an old instance of FS2002 and used the DF B734 add-on. Obviously lacked the motion and the real feel of switches (vs mouse clicks!). But I still found the transition back to FS to be a good experience (not a let-down).My problem is more with real flying, where there's a real 3D picture in front of you. And real traffic and controllers. I would have to say that I do struggle with that. When I first get back to the sim it's like a "toy", then if I don't fly for some time that sense disappears and immersion returns. With a corresponding positive experience when I next actually fly, of course :)Bruce.

In case you've not seen this:http://forum.projectopensky.com/index.php?showtopic=10914POSKY's Warren C Daniel had much to say on the subject.regards,MarkXPHomeSP2/FS9.1/3.2HT/1GIG/X700pro256

I remember reading something like that previously. I wonder what those folks felt like the next time they were alone at home with their copy of FS2004 along with, perhaps, their favorite aircraft add-on. There has to be a feeling of letdown, or perhaps not. RH

Back in 1984, I took flying lessons in a C-172. I had 10 or so hours in the left seat, obviously with the instructor in the right seat;). After that point, I ran out of money. However, that was over 10 years prior to the point that I picked up a copy of FS5.1, where my MS Flight Simulator experience began. So, my judgment as to similarities and differences is limited. In the real C-172, I remember the cramped feeling with a person right beside me, the vibration and noise of the whole cabin at start up and taxi, the constant heat inside (flew in GA in the summer), and the feeling of general ignorance and my just doing what the instructor told me to do. I know if I had to do it again, I would be miles ahead in terms of general aviation knowledge and procedures from my MSFS experience.RH

"I know if I had to do it again, I would be miles ahead in terms of general aviation knowledge and procedures from my MSFS experience."Yes- FS is a great tool for learning the mechanics of flight. Like you, I first discovered real flight prior to FS (FS5.1 too), and soloed etc. But a lot was still a mystery, until FS5.1 turned up as a birthday present in 1994. I took up flight again in 2000 (had to re-solo, and all that stuff), and it was a lot easier because of the sim. The sim certainly shines for instrument flight too.I'm doing my commercial soon, and want to go on to do my CFI rating after that. If I ever get to that elevated point of being able to teach flight, you can bet that I will have a copy of FS as an aid to aviation :)But this is getting away from your question of how it feels to go back to FS from a full-motion sim.Bruce.

I think perhaps not so much Robbie - in fact many have expressed a greater appreciation for how much can be achieved with 'little' fs9 on a pc. What's more look how many real world ATPs are avid fs pilots, and they stap on the real thing regularly!regards,MarkXPHomeSP2/FS9.1/3.2HT/1GIG/X700pro256

Well I was the other lucky pile-it that day with Warren and his posting of the experience was pretty accurate. It was as much fun (and frustrating) as it sounds. While I wouldn't say I was disappointed in returning home to FS9, I was thinking more to myself "Ya know it wouldn't really take that much to get close to that minus the motion part of course. A few projection systems, building a pit, a dedicated room with no lights except from the sim, etc." Jay EklundCATV Senior Captain KDENhttp://online.vatsimindicators.net/812321/764.png

RobbieSome years ago I got a ride in a 747-200 simulator at Heathrow. The experience was absolutely amazing. First jaw-dropping moment was when the chap turned everything on and suddenly there we were - San Francisco at night, the airport stretching out all around, runway lights twinkling, the cockpit instruments lit up. You discover problems you'd never thought of, like adjusting the seat height, and having to taxi along using the little tiller bar. And then take-off. Sitting in that left seat, getting your hand comfortably around the throttles and pushing them forward (instructors hand right behind yours!), waiting for the call, then - rotate! You really feel you're flying! Best of all are the forces on your body - hanging in the straps, the jolts at landing, the feeling of deceleration.. Trouble is I did all this before I had any FS or real flying experience so I'm afraid I made a bit of a hash of the landings, which were all manual. Some of the others in the group had some prior knowledge and it seemed to help. One did the Kai Tak approach and pulled it off. Another flew around New York, skirting the World Trade Centre....Since then I've spent a few years with FS, but of course it doesn't even come close. The real simulator effectively suspends your belief that you're still attached to the ground. It immerses you totally. Your senses are fooled and they tell you that you're flying. You simply can't recreate that sitting in a study on an office chair, staring at a 19in monitor. I felt a more accute emotional letdown when I started flying lessons - I went right off FS and thought I'd never go back. But go back I did, once the real flying had to stop and the memory of it started to fade.I now like to think of the two activities as utterly separate, but enjoyable in their own way. FS is great fun, and can be educational if you take it seriously. It doesn't bear much resemblance to the experience of real flight, but it can certainly recreate some of the procedural aspects of flying real aircraft. And having had a go in a 'real' simulator I'd say the same applies. Compared to FS it's an utterly different animal, but there's no doubting how good the modern sims such as PMDG and LDS would be in preparing you for such an experience. I'd love to do it again (and I could bone up this time using 747RFP). And I'm sure my landings would be better..But I wouldn't feel letdown afterwards when I went back to playing with FS at home, because FS is just as much fun - in it's own little way.Best wishesIan

I was fortunate to be given the chance to fly an A320 full-motion sim.Coming back to FS9 was not a let-down at all because I dont think you can compare a multi-million dollar monster on hydraulics, driven by powerful computers and with a super high-definition visual system - to a simulation on your PC.I'll be honest - I was *not* blown away by the visuals on that professional sim. Of course they were very impressive but what really DID blow me away was the sense of motion, engine noise and tiny little effects like "bumps" being felt as you trundled along the taxiway.That really does feel real.If there was a was a "let-down" it would be the fact that you stay still as your favotite plane in FS9 is doing a hard turn!I feel that with all the add-ons (freeware & payware) FS9s visuals are brilliant...I have played it on a wall using a high-end projector...and I feel that if you combine this with a home-rigged hydraulic system FS9 would ROCK :)

Slightly O/T guys., but i often wonder if anyone out there has actually bought a home-based motion platform?. There does not seem to be many of them around at the moment (in the uk at least), but the ones i have seen on the internet, although far from cheap, are not going for silly bucks either.I saw one going for around

I've had the fortune to get some instructional time in a 747-400 and 777 full motion simulator while working at Boeing. I also have spent several hours/days flying the 737NG fixed engineering simulators. One gets quite a bit extra from the bumps and motion of the full motion simulator and it can be distracting if you're not used to the cockpit layout. The fixed simulators didn't have the motion, but it did have the contol feedback of the airplane.What I found was that the 747 was very overwhelming, with some lag on the controls and airplane reaction, but the 777 behaved somewhat like the cessna 172 (I was flying more then before child # 2). The 737NG also behaved more like a small airplane.To the question, I bought and just love the PMDG 737NG addon because it has the same feel as the fixed engineering simulators that I spent so much time with. I wish I could have the same surround sound and controls, but the display of the PMDG is an adequate counterpart.Oh well, my 2 cents worth.Mike Martinez

Hi Robbie,I have had the privelege of a few hours on an A320 sim. To give a bit of background, I had the opportunity to do some beta testing on an excellent A320 add on that was really 'before its time'. I realised that there were huge gaps in my knowledge. I later wrote a manual for a 'stillborn' A340 project. This needed a large amount of research and prompted me to try the 'real thing' (well, A320 anyway - there are lots of differences between the 320 and 330/340 families).Anyway, I would say that all of the above helped in my enjoyment of the full simulator rather than enjoyment of FS. I did not have to learn from scratch. It also allowed me to learn more about the real aircraft while I was in the simulator rather than learn about basic things.There are some amazing thing that you can only learn on the simulator - no amount of reading will tell you about the behaviour of the real aircraft. For example, if you carry out an autoland to roll out and then steer the aircraft off the runway with the tiller while the autopilots are still connected, as soon as you let go of the tiller it will steer back to the runway centre line again. It only makes me realise how many things are missing from current Airbus simulators for FS and how desperately we need a 'bus' to the same standard as the Boeing add-ons.Finally, I would say that the external visuals in FS are still very impressive in comparison with the full motion although, of course, there are different generations of visuals for full motion sims.Must book another flight.....

The difference between the 747 and 777 sims you mention is interesting. Is it because the 747 is not primarily a fly-by-wire aircraft as is the 777. Is the 737NG a fly-by-wire?RH