FSX-MS Questions for licensed GA pilots

[qqwertz 781]

Flying is not pilotage. So the weakest part of sim is not such a problem at all. But if you want exactly the FEEL OF FLIGHT, then sim will not help. And even though good models like A2A C182 will teach you most of skills required to fly real plane. You will not feel the flare moment and some other specific things, but most of flying science is at your disposal with sim.

 

p. s.

Even if someone cannot get PPL, it's always possible to take several private flight lessons with instructor to get "the feel".

Great post! I took one flying lesson last year (only about $90) and it was a fantastic experience to compare it with FSX. I knew the plane would be a Cessna 172, so to get the most out of it I prepared myself for two months using the A2A C172, which is an incredibly good model. I followed the A2A procedures as accurately as possible, including preflight inspection, and was delighted when the flight instructor followed precisely what A2A wrote in the manual. Some things were a bit cryptic in the simulation. For instance, it wasn't clear to me how exactly they get the fuel into that little glass when testing quantity and fuel type

 

There were quite a few surprises in the real thing. For instance, in FSX you tend to concentrate on the instruments, but in the real plane I automatically looked out of the window most of the time. You cold hit something, so being aware of what's ahead is much more important. I found it much easier to keep altitude and speed in the real plane as compared to FSX, but the controls react much more bumpy than in a simulation (they resist changes more strongly and you can also feel in the yoke when you change the elevator or if you go through a turbulence).

 

So from my limited experience I would say that Artem's post really brings it to the point: if you take FSX seriously, try to follow procedures without short cuts, and use a good payware model on Vatsim, then the procedural aspects of flying are very well modelled. However, the feel of a real plane is different from that in FSX.

 

There have been a number of posts stating that FSX can never get remotely close to the real thing. I would say it depends on what you are looking for. I personally am fascinated by the high professional standards in aviation and enjoy going through procedures. I would say I ended up being even more satisfied with FSX because with the right addons you can get close. However, if you like flying because you enjoy the view, then even ORBX won't be the same as reality (although it is pretty good). And if you like flying because of the adrenaline rush or the feeling of sitting in a bumpy plane, then FSX will always be a disappointment.

 

Peter

[Manny 1,293]

1)  What percentage of an actual flight do you experience in your simming sessions?  I expect answers could be anywhere from 20% to 90%, but I'm just looking for your general perspective.

 

Curt ..for me its greater than 70%. Particularly if I do IFR flight.

 

If it was not that real, I would not be simming.

[twojastara 85]

I love simming. It's my way to keep following my dream, since I can't spend too much money on it in real world.

 

The biggest advantage for simming is using it for training and keeping my skills sharp.

 

The biggest disadvantage is actual 'feeling' of flight and all the emotions in real flying.

 

My best flying adventure so far was during my first, longest solo cross country for PPL. In the evening before my flight, we had to change place for first landing to the airport, that I have never been to before. It lies within the fields, with little landmarks around.

 

I remember approaching it. I was there completely alone, trying to keep my heading, timing and observing VOR radials. I was 90% sure that I was on good track, however there are still those doubts in your head - and they make every flight very emotional.

 

It is like entering the other world - you leave everything you know on the ground. Feeling of disconnection and freedom is truly overwhelming.

 

Finally, I have spot the airport, for the first time, with perfect timing on perfect track. That was one of the most rewarding moments in my life. I was so excited, that I totally forgot about keeping my altitude and the voice in comm brought me back 'to the ground' minding my low altitude. I have landed, taxied to the parking spot, get off and was welcomed by the airport staff in the regular way they welcome every other pilot. This was the first time I have felt that I am becoming a part of this  community .

 

When people ask me how expensive flying is, I always respond that it is a fair price for a dream of your life .

 

Lukasz

[Flyfox 114]

 

 

When I "fly" in the sim, it brings back memories long ago lost to my subconscious. If a new piece of hardware or software improves the experience, I buy it. I spend all my hobby money on flight simulation. I am no longer interested in gardening, woodworking, or photography since I "rediscovered" flying four years ago. God bless all the developers and promoters of this wonderful hobby.

To the O/P's original question, you "lose" only as much as your imagination allows.

 

I couldn't express it any better. Whenever I simfly an airplane which I flew in RW, the memories are back and I forget that I am sitting in front of my computer screen only. TrackIR and EZDOK camera help a lot to provide such experience. My simflights with GA planes like A2A's great Cherokee and C172 and those with glider planes (like Aerosoft's Discus and the new ASK21) give me such a great flight experience at (compared to the RW flying) almost no cost. In this field my flying experience is singificantly over 70% RW.

 

In addition, I can enjoy many airplanes which were definitely out of my reach in RW, and the feeling of "flying" is still great. FSX (and FSX-SE, Prepar3D, X Plane etc.) is alive!

[Wobbie 938]

It's all about the immersion factor. At our VA Club, Cape Virtual, here in Cape Town, we have build an Avro Shackleton simulator, using original seats, yoke, throttle quad & pedals. It's almost scalesize, just a bit narrower so it fits on a trailer. We using a LCD panel for gauges & a projector for scenery. We are using FS9 with Aeroworx freeware scenery for South Africa.

 

When real pilots fly, they get so immersed that they 'bump' in their seats when landing to anticipate touchdown. We fly circuits & the sim is fixed.. no tilt.

 

We see the same effect with our twin seater Aeromacchi MB326 sim, known as Impala here in South Africa.(also FS9)

[rjevansuk 3]

I did use FSX whilst doing my PPL. I have horizon's UK VFR scenery and UK airfields, VOXATC, Saitek control panels.

I found the above setup very useful for

- checklists and procedures,

- practicing radio procedures,

- practicing cross country navigation, the vfr scenery was extremely useful for recognising airfields from the air and flying circuits.

The major challenge was finding a good Piper Warrior with the same flight characteristics. I now fly a PA 28 180 and the A2A Cherekee is an extremely accurate rendition.

I still use FSX as practice for flying to new airfields and instrument flying.

To answer your questions:

1) with the right setup you can get 90%

2) it is not as rewarding as the real thing but can be an invaluable traing aid

[bonchie 2,305]

Rob - Funny thing is, I think some of these basic flying skills are actually harder to do in the sim than they are IRL.

 

Definitely is. It's so much easier to trim, manage power, and fly precision in real life vs. a sim.

 

That's probably the biggest thing that's different for me. A sim can really get close with procedures, scenery, atmospherics, weather, etc. 

 

But when it comes to actually flying, it's just not there. And for FSX/P3D, ground handling is just ungodly terrible compared to real life.

 

Landing a plane in a 10 knot crosswind in real life...the plane almost becomes part of you as you get it down. You don't even think about each individual control input. I just don't get the sensation in a simulator. 

[bonchie 2,305]

My final tip. Take simulation seriously. By that I mean don't just learn to fly IFR. And heavies. And PMDG "even though I love them". 

 

This. It's amazing how many people around here can auto land a 737 but wouldn't know what to do if they were asked to land a Cessna in real life. They are learning bits and pieces of flying ops but missing some of the greatest highlights along the way.

 

I think the tube liners are more sexy for simmers, and for years I was a PMDG nut as well, but when I got my PPL I realized just how involved and how much fun GA flying is. Actually being low, seeing the scenery, hand flying every approach, getting to see things the high fliers don't get to see, and appreciating the satisfaction of putting down a plane on a 2000ft runway with a crosswind. It beats auto landing a 737 any day. 

 

So many simmers are missing some special moments just button pushing in PMDG planes. There's something so satisfying about flying the A2A Archer (or whatever) just like you would in real life, from walk around to shutdown.

[BeechPilot 0]

 

Due to my age and health issues, I'll never qualify for a PPL.  I've often wondered though to what degree a simulation flight compares to an actual one.   

 

 

Thanks in advance for any replies.    

 

 

Curt

 

I assume that you have used a flight simulator, and are familiar with the basics.

 

If able, have you considered taking a "Discovery Flight",  or even 1 or 2  lessons.

 

eg

 

http://www.teachmetofly.com/ContentPage.aspx?ID=1412

 

http://www.takewinginc.com/firststep.html

 

etc

 

The best way to find out what it really feels like to be up in a real world GA aircraft, is to experience it yourself.

 

If you do, be sure to let us all how how you enjoyed it 

 

But beware  -- it can be HIGHLY ADDICTIVE !!

[curt1 79]

Curt

 

I assume that you have used a flight simulator, and are familiar with the basics.

 

If able, have you considered taking a "Discovery Flight",  or even 1 or 2  lessons.

 

eg

 

http://www.teachmetofly.com/ContentPage.aspx?ID=1412

 

http://www.takewinginc.com/firststep.html

 

etc

 

The best way to find out what it really feels like to be up in a real world GA aircraft, is to experience it yourself.

 

If you do, be sure to let us all how how you enjoyed it 

 

But beware  -- it can be HIGHLY ADDICTIVE !!

I guess I should look into that, at least for the experience of being behind the controls.  The last time I was in a Cessna was about 30 years ago at Lake of the Ozarks.  I was able to see the fuel gauge from the back seat and noticed it was quite low.  I'm sure it was sufficient for our short flight, but I feared the worst not knowing the engine out glide capabilities at the time.  The back seat flight was okay, but I should try an intro flight.  My health issues would prevent obtaining a PPL though, not to mention the expenses involved.  Fortunately, airplane and scenery developers make things seem quite real for those in my situation.

[PIC007 82]

Curt, if you are in the US, you have other options besides the PPL. There is now a 'sport pilots' and "recreational' license that may be something you can do. They are limited in what is allowed but depending on your health they could be possible.