The Rising Cost of Flight Simming

[krazyk 157]

Interesting topic and I can only wish for an honest open ended discussion but this isn't the place and like some bloke from PMDG mentioned earlier, if it goes south, this thread will end up where all such threads eventually end up.

 

I wanted to move to P3D as most of my sim friends have, even more so now after having recently built a new system to take advantage of todays technology but the prices for add ons scare me. They've rocketed up and I can't be sure if all of them deliver the features to deserve the asking price. The community tends to mirror each other though. If one developer sees the scope for a 10% increase in price, others follow suit, as is the case with most famous developers these days.

Some will come back and say that you aren't forced to purchase a commercial simulator that isn't meant for entertainment purposes or an add on that simulates xyz in depth, and while I partially agree to that notion - what other choice does one have if they would like continual support and progress to the simulation itself? We all know FSX won't see any progress. The only option right now is P3D (yes, I know XPlane exists but I'm not too fond of that product and the pricing for below average add ons there tend to make FSX look like a starving nation with no spending power).

USD 90 for a base pack and then another 35 for the expansion was already pushing it for me so I definitely can't afford to buy same product in P3D with the additional licensing costs. It's exciting to see greater depth being achieved in every product that is sent out for release but it's getting further and further away from my reach, at least.

[jonss1948 20]

Remembering last christmas and its sales, I say this is cheap. With little patience costs stay low. And I'm not a pmdg believer, there are as good and almost as good addons on offer. Paid 20€ for pmdg md11, coolsky dc9, ifly 737 etc. And all from respected retailers. Even ftx has an annual sale nowadays, so spend wise and get more.

A very good point.

 

Jon

[zmak 331]

 

 

If one developer sees the scope for a 10% increase in price, others follow suit, as is the case with most famous developers these days.

 

Not always the case and very strong example is ORBX. There was a thread going there recently about PMDG P3d and the double price dip. JV closed down the thread by saying It really irritates him how DEVS can double charge and he wont have any more talk about it in his forum.

I love ORBX and there unwavering support, freebies and constant updates to 4 year old scenery. They really are a shining example of customer after sales service

[wizzards 99]

No good moaning about an add on,s price,s,just do not purchase or wait for the sale,Developers charge what they can get away with,like all business and who can blame them,and sorry but to me no add on is worth paying full price for twice,just to use in P3d,the best by far is Orbx fair price and very good product,s and updated regularly they even give a senior persons discount ,what I find difficult to swallow is Devs who derided/didn't want to support P3d at the start and now want to charge premium prices for there add ons just to work with P3d,I simply don't purchase from them

peter

[krazyk 157]

 

 

Not always the case and very strong example is ORBX.

 

I was referring to aircraft developers.

[Space Monkey 24]

I wonder if the flightsim market is in danger of becoming fragmented in the sense that we now have a choice of 3 viable sims with well respected addon providers now serving all three. Could it be bad news for both the developers and ourselves. Some of our addons are remarkable but might be quite an outlay for some, we both have choices to make in the market and personally I'm starting to find purchase decisions more difficult to make.

 

Regards Brian

[zmak 331]

I was referring to aircraft developers.

Which ones?

[krazyk 157]

Carenado, CaptainSim, Milviz, BlackBox Simulations come to mind immediately.

[tttocs 301]

 

 

Carenado, CaptainSim, Milviz, BlackBox Simulations come to mind immediately.

 

Milviz does charge for FSX to P3D updates - and to my mind quite fairly so.  I believe converting the FSX Baron or 310 to a dual install is a $15.00 add-on.  Others take a similar approach.

 

But as always, these "here's what I think Developer X SHOULD do" kinds of discussions are a bit pointless other than to vent.  We lack information to make informed comments relative to the reasons behind vendors' decisions and can only speak to the decisions we make ourselves.  As consumers, we either validate or invalidate pricing strategies in the marketplace.

 

Scott

[krazyk 157]

Milviz does charge for FSX to P3D updates - and to my mind quite fairly so.  I believe converting the FSX Baron or 310 to a dual install is a $15.00 add-on.  Others take a similar approach.

 

But as always, these "here's what I think Developer X SHOULD do" kinds of discussions are a bit pointless other than to vent.  We lack information to make informed comments relative to the reasons behind vendors' decisions and can only speak to the decisions we make ourselves.  As consumers, we either validate or invalidate pricing strategies in the marketplace.

 

Scott

 

I don't think anybody here is venting or asking any of the developers to change their stance on pricing. I'm sure it's far more calculative than just 'here's what I think they will pay'. It's a discussion on where the prices are going and how it's one sided where the spending money is nearly the same for some while the add ons keep reaching higher and higher on the pay scale. As for the developers I named, I wasn't only referring to their pricing policy catering to different simulators but if the price itself was worthy of the product being offered in exchange.

 

At the end of the day, the minority won't make a dent if the majority is happy with it and I'm completely okay with that. If the market is lucrative enough to squeeze a few extra dollars from the consumer without causing any massive backlash, then like you rightly said, it's the market that dictates the selling price. For me, personally, it's moving up to a point where I am finding it more and more difficult to justify the purchases, which again is fine as I'm not the only consumer.

[dm123 19]

Moving back towards the original few posts, flight simulation isn't cheap, thats for sure. But it isn't terrible, depending on how you look at it. I have friends who pay $60-$120 for video games in a given year, and then buy a new $300 console every couple of years. Well, I buy two new aircraft a year and the occasional weather addon for about $120 a year. I also recently spent about $300 on a new Saitek control set to upgrade from the joystick I had used for about 8 years. Is it all that different? Now if you are buying addons every month, buy scenery all of the time, etc, this will get very expensive. But thats different.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Just wait until you start doing international flying....

 

I have a ziplock bag for each country's currency I fly to... one for euros, one for $NZ, $AUS, Yen, Won. And you'll definitely forget a zippy or bring the wrong one at least once!

 

haha - yep. I know how that goes:

 

I know I have some random coins from Moldova floating around, too (had a few roommates from there). I know I have a few Marks sitting around, but I put those in a box since they're obviously no longer going to get used.

[jonss1948 20]

I wonder if the flightsim market is in danger of becoming fragmented in the sense that we now have a choice of 3 viable sims with well respected addon providers now serving all three. Could it be bad news for both the developers and ourselves. Some of our addons are remarkable but might be quite an outlay for some, we both have choices to make in the market and personally I'm starting to find purchase decisions more difficult to make.

 

Regards Brian

Now you mention it, I'm not too sure anyone knows where all these changes are going to end up. I suspect an area of the market is emerging that has everyone placing their bets very conservatively viz 'Flight'. I once heard what I believed to be a very low figure of only 180,000 simmers world wide. This no more than 5 years ago. I wonder if the figure has been re measured lately. Don't ask me how to measure it but it would be an interesting comparison. I'm with you on the purchase decisions. With my local currency back around where it should be, the add on I purchase will be top quality but the purchase will be considerably less often.

 

Jon

[mgh 89]

 

 

I once heard what I believed to be a very low figure of only 180,000 simmers world wide

 

ORBX estimated that there were were only about 40,000 active FS enthusiasts worldwide in 2011.

I showed that only 20,920 active members of AVSIM who were  defined by posting at least once a year.

 

Both from  from a thread on Flight project cancelled/on hold in the Microsoft FLIGHT Archive.

Orbx, on 06 Sept 2011 - 9:36 PM, said:
 

Quote

We estimate less than 40,000 active FS enthusiasts worldwide, across both the tube liner and VFR disciplines. We know this purely from tracking our sales data and also being aware of other developer's sales data which they share with us. Please don't use the number of registrations at AVSIM, Flightsim.com or other forums as any indication of the community size. That is a totally false assumption. The community is based on what they purchase, and 99.95% of FS enthusiasts purchase add ons for their sim, as well as enjoying the plethora of freeware available.

 

mgh on 05 October 2011 - 04:00 PM said

 

Quote

AVSIM's Forums have about 75,560 (3778 pages each with 20 members). Of those 54,640 have never posted and could be regarded as inactive members. That leaves only 20,920 members who have actually posted at least once. This suggests only 27% of members are active. It seems possible that Orbx's figures are in the correct ball-park.

(Note that was before the format of AVSIM forums changed)

[CrewF16 26]

Yeah but!

 

 

 

AVSIM IS STILL FREE!

 

SO IS VATSIM!!

I flew RC since I was 14. Trust me when I say that I started simming because it is a lot less expensive. And you do not have to leave the house.