Not possible to restart failed engine in flight

[jgoggi 65]

Andrea, Kyle, it seems you are not getting my point, maybe I was not clear enough. Let's restart.

 

Problem: I DON'T WANT to simulate a one engine inoperative landing, I DO want to simulate an engine inflight restart, either windmill or crossbleed and to perform the related checklist as per QRH (start switch to FLT in windmill or to GRD in crossbleed, start lever to idle detent when N2 is at or above 11%, etc.). In order to restart the engine I need to have it shut down first...

 

Ways I can get an engine shutdown with the 737 NGX through the FAILURES menu on the CDU:

1) ENGINE V1/VR/V2 CUT --> this automatically always (I tried at least 30 times) turns to SEVERE ENGINE DAMAGE and the engine will not start anymore, because no N1/N2 rotation.

2) SEVERE ENGINE DAMAGE --> see point 1)

3) ENGINE FLAMEOUT --> the engine relights by itself almost instantaneously and everything gets back as if no failure had occurred (then it's not true what you say, that with engine flameout you can perform a restart procedure).

 

Question 1: Can I still perform an engine inflight restart? If so, how?? 

Question 2: Has the V1/VR/V2 CUT failure been programmed by PMDG so that it always turns to ENGINE SEVERE DAMAGE and there is no N1/N2 rotation or I may get the chance to have a N1/N2 rotation, that can allow me to perform a restart procedure? Why do I always get severe damage and no rotation? 

 

I hope that is clear enough.

 

Thank you very much.

[pete_auau 1,153]

Why  don't you just simulate   a engine  out  by just shutting  down one  engine since by the sounds of it  you tried everything  else

[jgoggi 65]

 

 

Why  don't you just simulate   a engine  out  by just shutting  down one  engine

 

 

Because I want to simulate it with FS2Crew Emergency and it needs to be a 'real' failure, otherwise the copilot does not detect it.

[nawarren 83]

Why won't engine flame out work? Put a timer on it then you shouldn't have Continuous ignition on if you set timer for say 10 min after takeoff. You will have a flameout and have to restart it. Cont ignition is designed to prevent flamout in critical phases of flight, i.e takeoff and landing.

 

Cheers

 

Neil

[jgoggi 65]

 

 

Why won't engine flame out work? Put a timer on it then you shouldn't have Continuous ignition on if you set timer for say 10 min after takeoff. You will have a flameout and have to restart it. Cont ignition is designed to prevent flamout in critical phases of flight, i.e takeoff and landing.

 

I tried and programmed an engine flameout several times in cruise, many minutes after takeoff. Each time the engine, after some seconds from the flameout, went back by itself to normal parameters...

[vonmar 122]

Neil,

"Why won't engine flame out work?"

 

Has it worked on for you?

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Why do I always get severe damage and no rotation? 

 

I already answered this:

"Additionally, a V1/VR/V2 cut is just going to re-light again (since you're taking off in CONT mode) if the type of failure is the type where it could be re-lit, so the type of failure here is a failure you're going to actually have to handle (and not let the automagic fix it for you)."

 

 

 

I tried and programmed an engine flameout several times in cruise, many minutes after takeoff. Each time the engine, after some seconds from the flameout, went back by itself to normal parameters...

 

Are you flying with CONT on?

[JoeDiamond 67]

It sounds like the auto-relight system is doing it's job.

 

Edit:  Having just checked I see that the sim models the start switches without the AUTO position so it does not have the auto-relight feature.

 

Edit:  Upon further review the sim behaves as if the auto-relight logic was programmed.  Using the engine flame-out failure the engine always relights with the start switch in the OFF position.  The behavior better matches the airplanes with GRD-AUTO-CONT-FLT start switches.  The engine relights at 56% N2 which matches the auto-relight logic.

[jgoggi 65]

 

 

Are you flying with CONT on?

 

No, I made sure that the start switches were NOT on CONT.

[JRBarrett 3,038]

If you want to practice single engine flight operations and/or inflight restarts, rather than failing the engine via the CDU menu, why not simply shut the engine down by turning off the fuel control?

[scandinavian13 5,192]

No, I made sure that the start switches were NOT on CONT.

 

Okay. Based on Joe's post, I might have to look into something, but as far as things are concerned, everything is behaving "properly" (if auto-relight is modeled).

[jgoggi 65]

Okay. Based on Joe's post, I might have to look into something, but as far as things are concerned, everything is behaving "properly" (if auto-relight is modeled).

 

I see the same thing happens on the 777, unless the autostart is deliberately set to OFF (sorry, but I opened a topic on the 777 forum, as well). In the following video you can see that the engine can fail and remain with N1/N2 below idle, that is no auto-relight, so that one can use the inflight start procedure:

 

 

 

 

If you want to practice single engine flight operations and/or inflight restarts, rather than failing the engine via the CDU menu, why not simply shut the engine down by turning off the fuel control?

 

Because I do that through FS2Crew Emergency and there is a well defined procedure for engine failure and inflight restart.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

I see the same thing happens on the 777, unless the autostart is deliberately set to OFF (sorry, but I opened a topic on the 777 forum, as well). In the following video you can see that the engine can fail and remain with N1/N2 below idle, that is no auto-relight, so that one can use the inflight start procedure:

 

...and this is why people aren't supposed to duplicate posts across multiple forums.

 

See my answer over there for the 777, since it's a different aircraft with different capabilities.

[JoeDiamond 67]

Okay. Based on Joe's post, I might have to look into something, but as far as things are concerned, everything is behaving "properly" (if auto-relight is modeled).

 

You don't need to use the failure mode to replicate it.  You can kill the engine with the start lever, let the engine spool down and move the start lever back to idle and the engine will relight.  This is with the start switch in the off position. 

[nawarren 83]

Hi All,

 

Ok so i just set a flame out in the failure options and yes the engine does auto relight, straight away with cont ign turned off. I don't think this is real world behaviour, but i could be wrong I will wait on Kyle to investigate further and enlighten us to the correct operation.

 

Cheers

 

Neil