Engine inflight restart not simulated?

[nawarren 83]

Hi all,

 

As Rob has stated above, the auto-relight system provides flameout protection by activating both ignitors. It is not autostart, that is a different system, used on the ground. 

 

Cheers

 

Neil

[777simmer 117]

Hi all,

 

As Rob has stated above, the auto-relight system provides flameout protection by activating both ignitors. It is not autostart, that is a different system, used on the ground.

 

Cheers

 

Neil

Yes, but Autostart is used in flight as well.

To restart the engine after a spool down.......but for the AUTOSTART system to do anything (like monitoring engine parameters, opening the engine fuel valve at the proper N2, aborting the start if certain parameters are exceeded,etc.......remember you had to do all this yourself on the B737!!) you have to turn at least the fuel control switch off and back on.....the autorelight system is fully automatic and requires no pilot action at all.

 

 

Good thinking.....just shutting the engine off via FSX own failure menu.

If that works, great :-)

(I have tried pitot and static failures via the FSX menu but that did not work at all......I guess some things work some things (that are simulated outside FSX) dont.

[jgoggi 65]

 

 

I just tried it and from what I can see that replicates the behavior from the FSiPanel video. (N1 rotation, but no Auto-relight).

 

Great idea, Henrik, I will try tomorrow.

 

 

 

I quickly wrote a little program in C# where you can specify a speed that you want an engine to fail at (communicates via FSUIPC) and it actually works great.

 

Any chance you can share it?  :rolleyes:

[denerin 0]

Great idea, Henrik, I will try tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

Any chance you can share it?  :rolleyes:

Sure. I'll have to make it little more "graphically appealing" to share, but give me a few days.

[pete_auau 1,154]

FSX menu (Aircraft -> failures, engine tab -> Complete failure)? I just tried it and from what I can see that replicates the behavior from the FSiPanel video. (N1 rotation, but no Auto-relight).

 

Good find  here   just tried it  and works  although   the only  thing there is no option  for v1   rotate,   so  the only  way to get  it  to work is  your  program  your working on where you can enter  the speed etc

[denerin 0]

Great idea, Henrik, I will try tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

Any chance you can share it?  :rolleyes:

Done.

 

http://library.avsim.net/download.php?DLID=189287

 

Hope you enjoy  ^_^

[jgoggi 65]

 

 

Done.

 

Thank you, Henrik! Can't wait to test it after dinner, after children are put to sleep...

[jgoggi 65]

Henrik, I downloaded it but, when I launch EngFail.exe, I get "EngFail.exe is not a valid Win32 application". I run it from a laptop with Windows XP, networked with the FS computer and with WideFS on. If I run on the same computer with FS, it runs ok. Doesn't it run under Win XP? 

 

Now the "technical" aspect. I know this does not depend on your nice program but on the simulator itself, but again it's not possible to do an inflight restart, because

1) you don't select the "Reset failure at...": the engine remains stuck at N1 below idle and does not restart at all if you perform the restart procedure.

2) you select the "Reset failure at..." and, at that time, the engine relights by itself, so no restart procedure needed. 

 

Thank you very much anyway.

[jgoggi 65]

By the way, I can't believe how poorly the engine is simulated in FS, even if you get rotation you can NEVER restart it, either with windmill or xbleed!

Not only the restart is NOT simulated, but all this is AGAINST the laws of physics!

 

I hope this is a limitation of FS that PMDG could not overcome, otherwise I would be really disappointed that such a deeply simulated aircraft lacks such an elementary feature. At this point what's the use of the inflight restart checklist? What's the use of the magenta message 'FL XXX - XXX to XXX kts' that appears when an engine fails?

[denerin 0]

Henrik, I downloaded it but, when I launch EngFail.exe, I get "EngFail.exe is not a valid Win32 application". I run it from a laptop with Windows XP, networked with the FS computer and with WideFS on. If I run on the same computer with FS, it runs ok. Doesn't it run under Win XP? 

 

Now the "technical" aspect. I know this does not depend on your nice program but on the simulator itself, but again it's not possible to do an inflight restart, because

1) you don't select the "Reset failure at...": the engine remains stuck at N1 below idle and does not restart at all if you perform the restart procedure.

2) you select the "Reset failure at..." and, at that time, the engine relights by itself, so no restart procedure needed. 

 

Thank you very much anyway.

The program should run under WinXP, but, the program is written as a WPF (windows presentation foundation) so you may have to install a newer .net on your XP machine.

(sorry, but I don't have XP anymore so I can't test it. I've only tested it with Win 7 and 8.1)

 

Yes, I know that you can't restart the engine as long as it is failed in the FSX meny..  and as soon as you reset it it relights.

Of course if you cutoff the fuel control switch it will not relight.. so that's why I added the "Reset failure.." option..

 

in the checklist "ENG FAIL L, R" step nr 4 is "FUEL CONTROL SWITCH -> CUTOFF"...

then you could reset the failure and attempt a restart.

 

I know it's not optimal in any way.. but just tried to do something with it. ^_^  

[ivo09 23]

Have any of the devs given insight as to whether this is simulated or not?

[jgoggi 65]

Of course if you cutoff the fuel control switch it will not relight.. so that's why I added the "Reset failure.." option..

 

Yes, that's a good idea and your little program is fantastic. What concerns me is that all of this should happen automatically and also as a part of the random failures set in the airplane, but it will never happen :-(

 

 

 

Have any of the devs given insight as to whether this is simulated or not?

 

I will send a ticket.

[pete_auau 1,154]

I will send a ticket.

 

James have you seen the reply  to your post in the fsipanel forum?

[jgoggi 65]

James have you seen the reply  to your post in the fsipanel forum?

 

You mean the reply by Jean Pierre? Yes, but I have some doubts that if he fully understood my question. Further, when I wrote there I didn't know that even with N1 and N2 not zero it is impossible to restart the engines in the 737/777... Only in one case it is possible in the 777: if autostart is off.

[777simmer 117]

You mean the reply by Jean Pierre? Yes, but I have some doubts that if he fully understood my question. Further, when I wrote there I didn't know that even with N1 and N2 not zero it is impossible to restart the engines in the 737/777... Only in one case it is possible in the 777: if autostart is off.

Why dont you just select AUTOSTART to OFF as soon as the engines have been started on the ground?

 

All AUTOSTART is needed for is automatic monitoring of engine parameters, fuel valve opening and ignition switching while starting the engines (plus automatic start abort when start parameters are exceeded while on the ground. The AUTOSTART system will try try 3 start attempts before it will call it a day.)

So once the engines run, AUTOSTART is never used nor needed again unless you have an engine failure and want to do an inflight engine start with the help of automatic monitoring, fuel valve opening and ignition selection at the proper N2.

 

So,

- after starting the engines on the ground

- turn AUTOSTART switches off for the remainder of the flight

- fly

- have an engine failure

- do the engine fail checklist

- after the fuel control switch has been set to CUTOFF (as per engine fail checklist)

- remember to turn the AUTOSTART switch back on (nothing should happen/start because fuel control switch is still cutoff)

- Then continue with the restart part of the engine fail checklist.

 

I know this is only a work around and not a fix.

But it would prevent AUTOSTART from kicking in all by itself.

 

Or, if you mean to say that you never have to select the START/IGNITION selector to START because AUTOSTART simply starts the engine at any RPM, then you could even leave AUTOSTART off allways and start the engines just like the B737.

More fun for ya maybe!?

I have not tried yet on the PMDG777 but with AUTOSTART - OFF, if you first select START with the START/IGNITION switch and then simply select the fuel control switch to run after max motoring (N2) then the engines should start just like in the old days....B737 style.

After that, monitor your engine parameters as on the B737 and place the fuel control switch to cutoff if something goes wrong during engine start.

(see also the special procedure "Manual Engine Start" for starting engines with AUTOSTART off in FCOMv1 page SP7.4 which is page 288 of 1210 in Goodreader on iPad)

 

I dont see a problem with leaving the AUTOSTART switch off during the whole flight.

As I said before, if AUTOSTART was to be defect, you can be dispatched via MEL without AUTOSTART and by using the MANUAL ENGINE START procedure.