Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog Flightstick

[jfri 42]

I have an old CH Fighterstick and compared it side by side with the Warthog. The travel in X and Y axis appears to be the same. I don't have any idea what has been recommended on an A2A forum, but I simply cannot imagine that somebody would prefer a CH Fighterstick over a Warthog in any regard. I think the CH is a fine joystick in it's price range, but the Warthog is a premium piece of hardware, a world of difference. It is extraordinarily rare in the hobby that I have ever had something exceed my expectations, especially hardware. However, the Warthog did. I'm not too familiar with the Microsoft Sidewinder joystick, but unless it isn't working, I don't have the impression that replacing it with a CH Fighterstick would provide you with many advantages.

 

The guy who recommended the CH over the Warthog is a real world P51 pilot and had tried many controllers. I could not imagine that a MS Sidewinder stick should be as good as the many times more expensive CH Fighter stick or Warthog (which are priced about the same)

 

 

There is one thing about the Warthog that I've found a little annoying, and I'm sure you (Alan_A) know what I'm talking about, but jfri should know too as a consideration. Being as stiff as it is, and as big as it is, it can hurt the wrist and be awkward on the thumb if you don't position it correctly. If you can position or mount it somewhere lower, where your wrist is straight, and your thumb can cover the highest button naturally, without having to reposition your palm, then it is best.

 

I have no way of mounting it lower so my wrist is straight. It's going to be used on the desktop. That leads me to a discussion I have found on the web regarding choosing a CH Fighter-stick or a Warthog. One opinion expressed was. The CH stick is a desktop stick and the Warthog is best for being permanently mounted. Which would mean the CH stick is better for me.

But does the CH stick has as good precision as the Warthog

[KingGhidorah 209]

Do you want the best joystick that money can buy, or do you wish to suffer from Thrustmaster Envy forevermore? The Thrustmaster is a very heavy metal replica with 16 bit precision, a very premium product. It doesn't need to be screwed down because it is so heavy, but it is a big thing that like we've said, might cause some ergonomic problems. The CH Fighterstick is a less expensive 8 bit joystick, light weight, easy springs, a layout almost identical to the Warthog minus a few perks, and I think it is good in it's price range. It will probably suit you most of the time, and we've discussed above a couple of the situations where you may or may not benefit from the greater precision of something like the Warthog. Depending on what you pay for it, I don't think you'll go wrong with it. The Throttle unit for the Warthog setup is a masterpiece by itself, but it looks like you are only interested in the joystick part.

[jfri 42]

Do you want the best joystick that money can buy, or do you wish to suffer from Thrustmaster Envy forevermore? The Thrustmaster is a very heavy metal replica with 16 bit precision, a very premium product. It doesn't need to be screwed down because it is so heavy, but it is a big thing that like we've said, might cause some ergonomic problems. The CH Fighterstick is a less expensive 8 bit joystick, light weight, easy springs, a layout almost identical to the Warthog minus a few perks, and I think it is good in it's price range. It will probably suit you most of the time, and we've discussed above a couple of the situations where you may or may not benefit from the greater precision of something like the Warthog. Depending on what you pay for it, I don't think you'll go wrong with it. The Throttle unit for the Warthog setup is a masterpiece by itself, but it looks like you are only interested in the joystick part.

 

Is the warthog really the best joystick ? The ergonomic aspects concerns me somewhat. Also the guy at the A2A forum really seem to know what he is talking about. Otherwise the 16 bit thing seem to speak for the warthog. The prices I have found are about equal for the Warthog and the Fighterstick which thus does not seem to be less expensive (only 100 SEK).

Yes I'm only interested in joystick part because of cost. The stick is sold separately maybe the throttle will be also ?

[KingGhidorah 209]

So about $120 U.S. Dollars for the CH Fighterstick, more or less? That sounds about right. But you are saying that you've found a Warthog joystick standalone also in that price range? I find that hard to believe, but if so it is the bargain of a lifetime. That joystick easily goes for twice that amount.

[jfri 42]

So about $120 U.S. Dollars for the CH Fighterstick, more or less? That sounds about right. But you are saying that you've found a Warthog joystick standalone also in that price range? I find that hard to believe, but if so it is the bargain of a lifetime. That joystick easily goes for twice that amount.

 

Here in Sweden the CH Fighterstick would cost 1500 SEK (about $172) and the Hotas Warthog stick only 1600 SEK ($183). Have seen the CH Fighterstick at PC Aviator for $123 so maybe I could get it somewhat cheaper there but it would not be practical to return it if I didn't like it.

[KingGhidorah 209]

That sounds like an almost unprecedented bargain on the Warthog stick, and you know which one I would choose

[Alan_A 1,650]

But just to complicate things a bit... something else to keep in mind is that the CH Fighterstick and the less expensive CH Combat Stick are identical in terms of control response, stick size and "feel"  The only difference is the number of buttons.  I can't speak for others but I've never managed to fill up 18 buttons on a stick (Combat Stick), let alone 24 (Fighterstick).  So if budget matters - which in the real world it generally does - try pricing the Combat Stick, too - it might give you an additional option.

[jfri 42]

That sounds like an almost unprecedented bargain on the Warthog stick, and you know which one I would choose

 

The price asked for the full package is 3390 SEK (around $390) they also have the Saitek X55 Rhino which seem similarly to the warthog for 1690 SEK which would also include the throttle. Maybe I should look into that ?

But just to complicate things a bit... something else to keep in mind is that the CH Fighterstick and the less expensive CH Combat Stick are identical in terms of control response, stick size and "feel"  The only difference is the number of buttons.  I can't speak for others but I've never managed to fill up 18 buttons on a stick (Combat Stick), let alone 24 (Fighterstick).  So if budget matters - which in the real world it generally does - try pricing the Combat Stick, too - it might give you an additional option.

 

Another thing to consider. I have just made some flights with my MS Sidewinder precision 2 to get a feel about joystick vs yoke. And it clearly feels less comfortable then the yoke. The yoke with its button are lower and easier to reach compared to the highly placed joystick. And I suspect the warthog (and CH Fighter stick) is higher than my sidewinder (22 cm).

I see a price difference of $29 between Combat and Fighter stick on PC Aviator. Also I see another difference the fighter stick has another feature three selectable modes indicated by three leds. But I don't quite understand how that works. For FSX one button is the same button or ?

[Alan_A 1,650]

IIRC, you can use the modes if you program it via the CH software, rather than directly in FSX/P3D or via FSUIPC.  You could set it up for three different kinds of aircraft, for example.  Sorry, I don't have any experience with it since I've never used the programming software for any of my controllers.  But depending on how many types you fly, it might be worthwhile to use the mode feature.

 

About the yoke - it might be that that's your single best solution.  Sometimes I've used a yoke to fly stick-based aircraft, including fighters, and it works out.  Some of them, like the P-38, actually had a yoke, and the spade handle on the Spitfire is sorta kinda yoke-like.  It's really all in what you get used to.  When you're shopping, the differences seem huge, but once you make a choice it's pretty easy to settle in with whatever you've chosen and feel comfortable.  By all means go on exploring, but keep in mind also that the right answer might already be sitting on your desk.

[jfri 42]

 

 

IIRC, you can use the modes if you program it via the CH software, rather than directly in FSX/P3D or via FSUIPC.

 

How could you possible avoid assign (program) the buttons inside FSX or DCS itself ?

 

 

About the yoke - it might be that that's your single best solution. Sometimes I've used a yoke to fly stick-based aircraft, including fighters, and it works out.

 

I'm beginning to think that way. As I see it a Warthog or a CH Fighterstick would be of most advantage in DCS and not so much in FSX. Although I would try them for stick controlled planes. For now I first have to decide whether to buy a stick at all

[Alan_A 1,650]

 

 

How could you possible avoid assign (program) the buttons inside FSX or DCS itself ?

 

In theory you'd write the assignments into a profile that you'd create in the CH Control Manger software, and it'd then communicate with FSX or DCS.  I've never done it but others have.  In practice you might be better off using the payware version of FSUIPC to create different profiles for different types of aircraft - you could set up your quadrant for piston aircraft with prop and mixture controls, then set up a jet profile with the levers assigned to spoiler and flaps axes.  That's something that I can say from experience works out well, though FSUIPC doesn't always play well with recent add-ons like the Airbus X Extended that need controllers - throttles in particular - set up in FSX.  You can get it to work with FSUIPC, but it takes some scripting.

 

 

For now I first have to decide whether to buy a stick at all

 

If you settled on a yoke you wouldn't be the first or only one to do that.  Once you're past the decision you can settle in and just fly - something that I often forget, so I wrote that to remind myself, too...

[jfri 42]

 

 

If you settled on a yoke you wouldn't be the first or only one to do that. Once you're past the decision you can settle in and just fly - something that I often forget, so I wrote that to remind myself, too.

 

I can say that there are lot of things I dont like with yoke. It feels sloppy not smooth at all and I get no precision with it. I have the impression that both the CH Fighterstick and Warthog HOTAS can offer something better here

[Alan_A 1,650]

Understood.  It's a long time since I used the CH Yoke but I remember it being a little sloppy compared to their stick and the Warthog.

 

One budget solution, if you haven't tried it already, is to use the payware version of FSUIPC to set up response curves for the aileron and elevator axis.  What FSUIPC calibration lets you do is create a curve that's more aggressive than the highest-sensitivity one available in FSX/P3D.  The native one, at max sensitivity, gives you a linear response.  In FSUIPC you can create a curve that's more responsive in the center of travel, and rollls off at the end of travel.  The middle of the "S" becomes more of a straight line.  That might allow you more precise finger-tip control with the yoke, at the cost of some sensitivity at the extreme ends, where you're less likely to go anyway if the center of travel is giving you what you want.  Maybe worth exploring since it costs less than a stick. You might find you still prefer the stick for other reasons but this alternative might be worth a shot.

[jfri 42]

 

 

Not that a any joystick sitting on the desktop is ideal in the first place, the Warthog is about an inch taller than the CH Fighterstick

 

I think this is a strong point for choosing the Fighterstick over the Warthog. Seeing that the Warthog is over 28 cm high which I consider to high for being comfortable. But on amazon I see stated a dimension of 10.8" for the CH Fighterstick which would make it only about 1/2 " lower than the warthog.

Another argument for the Fighterstick is that I indeed get the impression that people have more issues with the Warthog and that the Fighterstick therefore is more durable. 

Would you still prefer to use the Warthog if it had to be used on a desktop instead of being mounted lower ?

[KingGhidorah 209]

No no, not in my observation. The FighterStick is absolutely NOT more durable. Not from what I can see, anyway. The Fighterstick is made of lightweight plastic and the Warthog is all metal construction. If you dropped the Fighterstick on your foot, the fighterstick might break. If you dropped the Warthog on your foot, the Warthog probably wouldn't survive, because of it's bulk, but you would break your bones. You wouldn't believe how beefy this thing is until it arrives at your door and go to lift up the box.

 

I personally would prefer the Warthog in all circumstances, even if I had to sit it on the desk, and I easily think it is worth twice the money as a Fighterstick (although you've found them similarly priced, the Warthog being about as good a price as you'll find). There is nothing at all wrong with the Fighterstick. It is fine. Other than that they look superficially the same, with similar buttons, they are normally found in a different price category, and I think they should be.

 

Make no mistake, the Warthog is a high-end joystick, and while the point can be argued, I just don't personally see the CH Fighterstick as being in that same range. I think when a lot of people start buying things like the Warthog, they start to get into the mindset not of how they can fit this on the desk, but maybe more of how they can start adapting the desk for the controller. At least that's how I started to see it. This could be a simple as some brackets and an underslung tray, as Alan_A has mentioned, or even a custom stand.

 

How close do you sit to your desk? I think if you can rest your elbow on the desk, then you'll have enough leverage to work it comfortably. Generally. If you are planning on flying a plane in something like Rise of Flight, where the planes don't have elevator trim and you have to hold the Warthog at a deflection for an extended period of time, then you might have some problems. In fairness though, if the geometry is bad, I find my arm will start to go to sleep no matter what joystick I've used.