Us entertainment customers may not like the reality of the situation, but the alternative would be for them to simply not offer it for the P3D platform.

 

For all intents and purposes, for Pro P3D users, they have indeed not offered for the P3D platform.

 

 

 

it may only take a handful or two of commercial clients (whose fee may scale with number of installations, service required, role specific programming / functions, etc) to equal a lot of entertainment customers. 

 

Which is why such draconian measures are unnecessary. Certainly no other developers see such a scheme as unnecessary.

 

 

 

given equal pricing, is going to see a lower profit margin in P3D

 

They charge 33% more the academic license and 8789% more for the pro license, not including the fact that TacPack is a prerequisite for the P3D version. Definitely not equal pricing.

 

 

 

This 'industry' is so tiny

 

Which makes it more noticeable when one developer goes off the reservation.

 

 

For all intents and purposes, for Pro P3D users, they have indeed not offered for the P3D platform.

 

Indeed.  It's very clear that they have equated P3D Pro with ESP.  However, LM themselves have made P3D Pro equal to ESP by allowing it's use in a professional environment.  You have to look at it from the other side.  It's not what us home users have access to or can use, that's determining the stance of VRS on this issue, it's what the professional market has access to.

 

 

 

 

Which is why such draconian measures are unnecessary. Certainly no other developers see such a scheme as unnecessary.

 

To the contrary, protecting your commercial interests makes it completely necessary, especially in light of the price difference.  I'd want to protect that high variance in pricing, wouldn't you?

 

 

 

They charge 33% more the academic license and 8789% more for the pro license, not including the fact that TacPack is a prerequisite for the P3D version. Definitely not equal pricing.

 

I was referring to the fact that the Academic version of the Superbug + TacPack is priced higher in P3D, than the equivalent version is priced in FSX.  It's not just VRS that do this, other developers do as well.  I wasn't addressing the difference in cost between the P3D Academic and the P3D Pro versions.

 

 

 

Which makes it more noticeable when one developer goes off the reservation.

 

My point is that there is no reservation.  It's not like the automobile industry, with one manufacturer suddenly deciding to charge 500% more for it's cars and not allowing them to be driven on gravel.  It's a specialist niche (military study sim) within an already niche market.  They can charge / do whatever they feel they need to.

 

In this case, you've done all you can do by voting with your wallet.  Likely others will vote as you have done, just as it seems likely that others will vote with their wallet in the opposite direction.  That, and that alone, is going to convince VRS that they made the right move or wrong move in pricing, or that they made the wrong move in even offering it.

 

No amount of tears shed or angry words shouted is going to influence that outcome. ^_^

 

 

While VRS may lose some sales by enforcing both the version used, as well as the requirement for both the Superbug plus the TacPack, it's very likely that it's far more worthwhile for them to protect their commercial interests.

 

Precisely. Which ties back in with the comments I've made in the thread in Hangar Chat about flight sim development now being driven largely by the concerns of the professional training segment of the market.

 

This is the road we are now going down and it's not one I think is going to be a good thing for the future of the hobby.

No amount of tears shed or angry words shouted is going to influence that outcome.

I'm not trying to get VRS to change their minds.  They've exhibited great stubbornness over the last few years. Other developers with exactly the same classes of product offerings (in terms of commercial and non-commercial addons) use different and more reasonable approaches. They have to protect their commercial interests as much as VRS. I just don't want other developers (VRS is not unique in any way shape or form) to create a trend in the direction of such misguided policies because to quote EngineRoom: "it's not one I think is going to be a good thing for the future of the hobby." But I'm not seeing such a trend yet simply because it is not a reasonable approach and I hope it stays that way and that VRS is just an outlier.

 

 

given equal pricing,

I was also referring to the price difference between FSX and P3D. If FSX and P3D were in fact the same price, your statement would have made sense. Alas it did not because they have very different prices. Thus "given equal pricing" is irrelevant.

 

We could go back and forth all day, but unfortunately I see no hard information from you that is not a guess of some form that disproves anything I have said. Maybe VRS knows something that no one else does. They just haven't said what it is and resorted very quickly to simply laying down the law- which should tell you something in and of itself.

 

 

However, LM themselves have made P3D Pro equal to ESP by allowing it's use in a professional environment. 

The issue is not professional or non-professional. It is commercial and non-commercial. You didn't address that. Only VRS keeps mixing those up.

 

 

I'd want to protect that high variance in pricing, wouldn't you?

Of course, but it can be done without excluding numerous potential customers (who no doubt outnumber commercial outfits). How do I know, because PMDG and A2A do it without excluding numerous potential customers (who no doubt outnumber commercial outfits). Heck, ORBX doesn't charge for P3D at all if you already have it in FSX. All three of those developers operate in the commercial sector as well as the hobbyist realm.

 

 

My point is that there is no reservation.

Look at the list of developers on Simmarket or PCAviator. Like it or not, there are a very large number of developers. There is a community of developers and users. This forum is an expression of that. VRS has created an exclusionary policy that is at variance with everyone else whether small one-man shops or large professional developer houses with both retail and commercial channels. When someone urges you to do something patently absurd (e.g. downgrade a P3D license or run parallel licenses or pay $4000 for a commercial license despite not being commercial), that person is behaving like a fan-boy who accepts whatever is dished out and expects others to follow suit. There are quite a few high-end developers in the flight sim add-on industry (yes, there is a flight sim add-on industry) including VRS, who can, shall we say, exhibit a certain hubris, many of whom are snickered at, roasted and/or lampooned on these very forums, it's just that those developers (other than VRS) have pricing policies that are if not customer-friendly are at least within reason and don't exclude entire classes of flight sim users.

 

 

I'm ~snip~

 

I'll quite pulling at that thread; serves no purpose.  Opinions are opinions; we've all got 'em, and they don't all agree. ^_^

As a Pro user, i have to say that im really p****ed off cause of that minor fact of 4000USD. And i guess there are a lot more Pro users who feel the same like Rob and me.

 

 

There are quite a few high-end developers in the flight sim add-on industry (yes, there is a flight sim add-on industry) including VRS, who can, shall we say, exhibit a certain hubris, many of whom are snickered at, roasted and/or lampooned on these very forums, it's just that those developers (other than VRS) have pricing policies that are if not customer-friendly are at least within reason and don't exclude entire classes of flight sim users.

 

+1, well said.

 

However, at the end of the day, VRS will do what VRS will do. I know I won't be purchasing it, as I don't use the Academic version of P3Dv2.

IMHO, what this somewhat boils down to is, that as a regular person off the street you are not supposed to be using the Superbug and/or P3D at all. I'm just curious about the message sent by VRS (and in part by LM), that it is OK if schoolkids and students train in a military study sim, but it is not OK for working adults (who can actually afford all this stuff...).

"IMHO, what this somewhat boils down to is, that as a regular person off the street you are not supposed to be using the Superbug and/or P3D at all. I'm just curious about the message sent by VRS (and in part by LM), that it is OK if schoolkids and students train in a military study sim, but it is not OK for working adults (who can actually afford all this stuff...)."

 

Right ... Looking back:

 

What were the restrictions for purchasing the SuperBug in FSX? ... Oh, and the optional TacPack, (" IF ")  you wanted to purchase it also.

This thread is slipping quietly over the edge of the EULA cliff. VRS has clearly stated the aims of their business model and no amount of discussion either here or elsewhere is going to change that. They are not going to sell a product that competes directly with (and drastically undercuts the price of) P3d Pro Plus which is what a TacPack version licensed for P3d Pro would be.

 

Maybe people should complain that P3d Pro Plus is also too expensive at several thousand dollars US per seat.

Nobody doing aircraft carrier OPS (traps /shoots) with VLSO / VRS Bug / TacPack for P3Dv2.5 ?

This thread is slipping quietly over the edge of the EULA cliff. VRS has clearly stated the aims of their business model and no amount of discussion either here or elsewhere is going to change that. They are not going to sell a product that competes directly with (and drastically undercuts the price of) P3d Pro Plus which is what a TacPack version licensed for P3d Pro would be.

 

Maybe people should complain that P3d Pro Plus is also too expensive at several thousand dollars US per seat.

 

Hmmm the Pro Plus (2300 USD) compared to VRS (4000 USD) would a bargain. I dont think that this thread is about EULA it is more about the anger of the P3D2 Pro users and how we feel about the not so much understandable price policy of a FS developer studio.

I understand the anger and frustration. I got over mine a long time ago after I realized the bind that VRS was in. I bought an Academic version of P3d. What else can we do except stick with the FSX version of TacPack? Maybe LM has a trade down policy on licenses. ;-)

Nobody doing aircraft carrier OPS (traps /shoots) with VLSO / VRS Bug / TacPack for P3Dv2.5 ?

I doubt that VRS has sold too many copies for P3d yet. I've just been trying to see how all the TacPack aircraft work in P3d. Oh and playing around with the CCP. It doesn't work as well as in FSX-SE, at least for me.

"14 Days Ago.

Posted Today, 10:45 AM

I understand the anger and frustration. I got over mine a long time ago after I realized the bind that VRS was in. I bought an Academic version of P3d. What else can we do except stick with the FSX version of TacPack? Maybe LM has a trade down policy on licenses. ;-)

vonmar, on 10 Apr 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

Nobody doing aircraft carrier OPS (traps /shoots) with VLSO / VRS Bug / TacPack for P3Dv2.5 ?

I doubt that VRS has sold too many copies for P3d yet. I've just been trying to see how all the TacPack aircraft work in P3d. Oh and playing around with the CCP. It doesn't work as well as in FSX-SE, at least for me.

Jay Bloomfield"

 

**

 

Jay,

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

That accounts for why I have not seen any "carrier" talk from pilots with the new P3Dv2.5  VRS Bug/TacPack purchase.

 

Bad news for me ... I cannot purchase without carrier ops / VLSO working .... 

as I just never got into ammo, rockets  and bombs .. the serious TacPack part (which I already have for VRS Sbug/FSX).

 

 

 

 

 

I understand the anger and frustration. I got over mine a long time ago after I realized the bind that VRS was in. I bought an Academic version of P3d. What else can we do except stick with the FSX version of TacPack? Maybe LM has a trade down policy on licenses. ;-)

 

I doubt that VRS has sold too many copies for P3d yet. I've just been trying to see how all the TacPack aircraft work in P3d. Oh and playing around with the CCP. It doesn't work as well as in FSX-SE, at least for me.

You may be onto something here. VRS refused pleas from the hobbyist community to support P3D for a long time. Maybe the change of heart was triggered by commercial entities and they don't really intend to sell P3D versions to hobbyists in meaningful numbers, preferring instead for them to use FSX. That would at least inject some partial logic into the pricing and license structure. Of course, I would never put a video up on Youtube with a watermark so an Academic license is out of the question. Luckily, hobbyists and professionals alike have plenty of other P3D options on the market.