The Hawker is Released

[kiwikat 506]

As far as I know there is no law that says they have to put their refund policy in the store. If they want to put it on the receipt then that is up to them. Don't blame Carenado because you didn't read your receipt.

 

Seriously!?

 

Hopefully next time you buy a car the dealer waits until after they have your money before explaining the warranties and terms of purchase.  *facepalm*

 

Oh, and by the way, my previous Carenado purchases mention NOTHING AT ALL about refunds on the receipts.

[raymar 969]

LOL Ray/ Jose. The fact that the community has to step up and fix the FMC and autopilot is the problem. People are getting fed up of spending this kind of money for an unfinished and buggy product. You seem to think thats ok - I dont believe it is.

No, I don't for a minute think that the 'unfinished and buggy products' are ok. That is why I complain about such, along with the missing flight guide, manual, and necessary documentation in just about every review of the recent Carenado products.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

[~Craig~ 10]

Reviews, like some forum discussions, should be taken with a pinch of salt.   :rolleyes:

 

Agree!   Ray, I urge you to consider value and customer support when undertaking your review.  These should be considerations, not just a pretty model and tasty looking VC, and an expectation that an enthusiastic community will improve the product further.

[raymar 969]

I have a real desire to buy this aircraft but as gullible as I am sometimes, even I can recognise that no amount of desire is going to fix something that is fundamentally broken.

 

You seem to have some emotional connection to Carenado and this Hawker, were you a beta tester by any chance and if so why was it released with systems so broken ?

 

As a real world pilot how do you rate the fidelity of the Avionics, Autopilot and FMC and do you feel the addon is worth $50 when compared quality wise to something like the Realair Duke v2 which is cheaper.

Appreciate your thoughts on this and look forward to your review.

No, you totally misread my post. I have absolutely no emotional connection to Carenado and this Hawker. Actually, just the opposite is true.

 

As a real world pilot I rate the fidelity of the avionics, Autopilot, and FMC as mostly 'unusable' for the average flight simmer at this point in time. I was expecting so much better as I was expecting Carenado to learn from all the growing pains with the Citation S550. If this was a test, then they failed miserably.

 

I agree with most of the customers that think Carenado really should establish a team of beta testers and not release products in such untested condition.

 

I just completed the Carenado S550 Citation S/II review for Avsim and all these, or similar problems with the product requiring the community to fix the avionics and the lack of testing was driven home. Same for their continued refusal to supply decent documentation, flying guides, manuals, etc.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

[Glynn 405]

Thanks for that Ray, I will hold off and watch with interest how this pans out.

Bert and yourself should be on the top of Carenado's list should they finally realise that they need to test this stuff before they release it.

I love how it looks, but for $50 that is not enough these days.

[Christopher Low 5,331]

Are some of you saying that Carenado do not beta test their products at all? Surely they must do some beta testing, even if that is "in house"?

[Glynn 405]

I doubt they test much, how else would they not realise that the FLC mode does not respect the selected altitude ? that is a pretty major problem that should have been picked up in testing.

 

These Carenado's are no longer marketed as reasonably priced addons with great graphics, once you start advertising Navigraph compatability and a full modelled FMC you are playing with the big boys and the price is right up there @ $50

[WarpD 824]

I don't think Carenado ever stated it was a 'full modeled FMC' but rather simply stated it has an FMC.

[raymar 969]

I have a real desire to buy this aircraft but as gullible as I am sometimes, even I can recognise that no amount of desire is going to fix something that is fundamentally broken.

 

. . . . and do you feel the addon is worth $50 when compared quality wise to something like the Realair Duke v2 which is cheaper.

Appreciate your thoughts on this and look forward to your review.

Hello Glynn,

 

Sorry, I missed replying to your last question.

 

It is so difficult to compare a corporate business jet to a propeller driven twin, no matter who builds them.

 

As far as value, my personal opinion is there is an upper tier of quality developers with truly outstanding products that we have come to trust and expect quality products. These are those with the Avsim Gold Star awards. Some of my most recent reviews are the Flight1, A2A, and RealAir products.

 

There is another lesser quality tier with consistently lesser quality products that look good, and appeals to the masses but will probably never achieve the Gold Star level without some massive changes in attitude and quality checks. This is where the Carenado products reside.

 

I personally think some of the upper tier products are priced correctly for the level of satisfaction and the completion and testing is very acceptable. That is not so for the ever increasing prices of the Carenado products and the unfortunate expected initial and sometime never fixed bugs and miscues of their more complex products.

 

As far as comparing my current review product - the RealAir Turbine Duke v2 - to the Carenado S550 Citation or this Hawker 850XP, there is no comparison. The RealAir TD v2 may have come with one small glitch that was fixed overnight, the Carenado products come with a ton of baggage and no roadmap.

 

This is not an official Avsim position, just my personal thoughts.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

[ErichB 3,638]

From what I can see, Carenado has a business  model that works very well..

 

Consistantly release a half-baked product to market....get hundreds of average Joe's to buy it....most average Joe's dont know enough to know any better.......meanwhile, us Avsim peeps (about 10 people) scream blue murder on the forums with every release....if there's enough flap, Carenado do something about it, if there isn't,  they leave it to the community to sort themselves out.    Then they push out the next product ...everyone comes running (again) , and the whole cycle repeats....

 

Unethical, but brilliant.  

[annber 10]

 

There is another lesser quality tier with consistently lesser quality products that look good, and appeals to the masses but will probably never achieve the Gold Star level without some massive changes in attitude and quality checks. This is where the Carenado products reside.

 

I personally think some of the upper tier products are priced correctly for the level of satisfaction and the completion and testing is very acceptable. That is not so for the ever increasing prices of the Carenado products and the unfortunate expected initial and sometime never fixed bugs and miscues of their more complex products.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

 

 

 

Carenado's pricing policy seems more closely associated with the size of the plane rather than quality and functionality of addon. Starting with the Seneca at $37.95 going up in small increments to the Hawker at $49.95. At this rate I shudder to think what they would charge for a buggy and incomplete T7.

[edetroit 933]

[l3ubba 16]

The $50 asking price suggests otherwise! That pits it against some very detailed products (basically they're asking Mercedes money but delivering a Kia). Carenado have hyped it a lot (endless teasers) and the community is desperate for an in-depth business jet so folks had high hopes.

The asking price doesn't necessarily correlate to features. Carenado can price it at whatever they want as long as people are buying it. I have noticed they have increasing the prices on their aircraft in small increments. Not too long ago brand new Carenado aircraft were $35-$40, now they are getting up to $50. What I think they are doing is with each release trying to see how much more $$$ they can squeeze out of people. And of course they are going to hype it up, they want to sell their product.

 

 

Seriously!?

 

Hopefully next time you buy a car the dealer waits until after they have your money before explaining the warranties and terms of purchase.  *facepalm*

 

Oh, and by the way, my previous Carenado purchases mention NOTHING AT ALL about refunds on the receipts.

You are comparing apples and oranges. A car is not only a real life item, but also usually involves contracts and all sorts of other paperwork; we are talking about a virtual aircraft. I was going off the statement of another user that the refund policy was on the receipt. I have never looked for the refund policy on my receipts. That is why I said what I did when I wanted a refund. All it took was a polite email and I got my money back no questions asked.

[ckyliu 1,749]

The asking price doesn't necessarily correlate to features. Carenado can price it at whatever they want as long as people are buying it...  And of course they are going to hype it up, they want to sell their product.

I don't disagree with either of your points. But that's why people have high expectations that aren't being met and are venting their frustrations in this thread. You can't have it both ways; if you build people and don't deliver they'll be annoyed.

[ryanbatc 12,773]

An FS9 user here? Hehe