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Lorenzog

DTG: What would you like to see in a new Flight Simulator?

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So, DTG would be safer to bet on a Simulator and apparently that's their intentions. They have covered a bunch of games (by others) very well so far and their first bet on a Simulator went well. They chose wisely. They should do it again.

The path still written on the wall. Go Simulator, go.

 

It looks though that since going with the MS Flight engine, they have chosen more of a game, which is what Flight was. To rebuild it into a full featured simulator in the time frame given (2016) would be very optimistic at best, and would be more expensive then if they started out with the FSX Code which already has or is capable of what we need. I think more likely there going to model it like their TS2015. They'll start off in a region (Maybe larger then Flight), and a few aircraft models and sell additional ones plus aircraft through Steam DLC. If they use the TS2015 model, they'll  charge for individual livery as well. Whether this community accepts it will depend on how open it is to external 3rd party development, and provide a SDK. MS Flight wasn't so I'm not too optimistic at this point. We'll just have to wait to see until they announce just what their plans are.


Thanks

Tom

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So, DTG would be safer to bet on a Simulator and apparently that's their intentions. They have covered a bunch of games (by others) very well so far and their first bet on a Simulator went well. They chose wisely.

 

Hear it from the horses mouth. Dovetail actually class FSX as a game. >>..

 

Quote

 

"...(FSX/steam) remains the game that players know and love.."

https://youtu.be/d4-eiwSDRS0?t=245

 

And Dovetail also class their Train Simulator as a game >

 

Quote

 

"We always spend a lot of our..time looking at the game from a new players perspective..".

https://youtu.be/gno6DKk8poo?t=30

 

So since Dovetail are a game-making company who say they make games such as Train-Simulator-2015 and Flight Simulator X-SE (both rated rated 'age 3 years and above') expect more of the same in future, although Dovetail might call the next one a 'flight-simulator game' if enough people request it ;-)'.

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In a game, any game, 99% of the entertainment comes from the Developer. It better be good then, real good.

 

99%??!  Not so. Rather a game is what you make it.  Shoot'em up games, for example, often require a heck of a lot of running around and fast reflexes to get through all the levels, plus brain-work and strategy, particularly in shooters etc featuring Myst-type puzzles. 

 

 

In a simulator, any simulator, 99% of the entertainment comes from the User.

 

Really, '99% of all simulator games feature user-generated entertainment only'??  Hardly. What about the lovely scenery and clouds floating by, and ai trains and boats and planes, and the missions and challenges, and the random system failures, etc?  All these features are built in and provide 'entertainment'  while the user often just sits and observes most of the time.

 

So again, a game/sim is what you make it ..and how you define the term 'entertainment'.  

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Hopefully you'll get this far but here is what I would like:

 

64bit

Platform level thinking in its design so things like versioned APIs, script engines and so on the reason being this gives it legs

A base free or low subscription cost model

DLC with auto update encompassing both payware and freeware

Low cost add ons

 

To give some back ground with FSX I have probably spent £2000 on its ecosystem, MS got FSX Delux and Acceleration. If by building an ecosystem that could thrive and focused on volume ala Steam sales model (where they make more money for the developer) then to me this would be a platform that I'd happily invest in.

 

Think if aircraft and airports sold for a £1 how many people would buy them on speculation and if developers paid 10p of that pound to distribute how much DTG would make. 

 

In terms of content then for me:

 

configuration for controllers ala FSUIPC / DCS

With X-Plane the killer troika for scenery is G2XPL, World2Xplane and the HD Meshes. At least the latter two can be stunning so leverage OSM and so on as it can give a VFR experience.

 

Some good base scenery and planes but I never fly them when I buy a sim I buy the high end stuff, maybe not a typical user but then I spend more than 50 typical users on my sims.


Iain Colledge

 

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It looks though that since going with the MS Flight engine, they have chosen more of a game, which is what Flight was.

 

Yea, right. FSX-SE engine came from the MS-Fligth one. I'll leave at that.  I am sure there is a quote or link for that too. Please don't bother.

 

NUTS!!!

 

 

"...(FSX/steam) remains the game that players know and love.."

 

https://youtu.be/d4-eiwSDRS0?t=245

 

I can only see someone that is under strict instructions to say nothing about anything on the future of DTG FS and where is going. Give nothing, commit to even less.

 

 

"We always spend a lot of our..time looking at the game from a new players perspective..".

 

https://youtu.be/gno6DKk8poo?t=30

 

My shoo shoo is collecting dust. Like I have/had it (NOT!!!). Ever. Or like I am going fishing anytime soon. Ops! Sorry. Me bad.

 

 

 

... and how you define the term 'entertainment'. 

 

Just follow us simers, you'll get it. Of course, if the force is with you.

Cheers,

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Yea, right. FSX-SE engine came from the MS-Fligth one. I'll leave at that. I am sure there is a quote or link for that too. Please don't bother.

 

I didn't say that! FSX-SE is FSX  with a few fixes, and modifications to market it on Steam, it did not come from the  Flight engine, Their new sim they plan for 2016 however as has been pointed out in this thread will be based on the MS Flight engine. I just don't think in the time frame stated, they can turn that into a full featured simulator we're all  accustomed to here in this community, in which MS Flight never was!!


Thanks

Tom

My Youtube Videos!

http://www.youtube.com/user/tf51d

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I didn't say that! FSX-SE came from FSX not Flight, their new sim they plan for 2016 however as has been pointed out in this thread will be based on the MS Flight engine. I just don't think in the time frame stated, they can turn that into a full featured simulator we're all  accustomed to here in this community.

 

There are a lot of barriers to overcome even if you assume the Flight engine:

 

Flight was never completed. Jet support was missing or inactive, as was helicopter support. Even real twin engine prop support was apparently missing. Weather effects were incomplete, Shadows were apparently still a work in progress......

 

People on the Beta were left a bit flat-footed when the decision to release-as-is was blurted out, and in the next few months before the shutdown, many of the issues were never addressed. 

 

So.

 

DTG has to assemble a team, get the tools up and running, get themselves up to speed.... (FSX-SE probably helped them gain valuable experience) then reconfigure the in-game store, complete the uncompleted sim with whatever additions they decide, probably update the textures, line up DLC etc etc........

 

Doing this all by 2016 is pretty darned ambitious! (I wonder how many third parties are involved?)

 

It's been pointed out, in an inimitable fashion, that Flight engine does not equal Flight itself. Agreed; but unless Dovetail are wizards, or manage to kludge together some frankenstein of a mixture between FSX and Flight, it's hard to see exactly what they are going to have the time to do.

 

I'm still expecting something that is recognizably a child of flight, but with enhancements. I will also be delighted if they can pull off a surprise, but whatever it is, my curiosity will demand I buy it.

 

Unless they do a beta and I can get a free copy!!!  :lol:


Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
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Good. Now we are all in same page again. Let's hope DTG stay onto too.

 

Cheers,

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Hear it from the horses mouth. Dovetail actually class FSX as a game. >>..

 

Quote

 

"...(FSX/steam) remains the game that players know and love.."

https://youtu.be/d4-eiwSDRS0?t=245

 

And Dovetail also class their Train Simulator as a game >

 

Quote

 

"We always spend a lot of our..time looking at the game from a new players perspective..".

https://youtu.be/gno6DKk8poo?t=30

 

 

So, even DTG call their stuff games! That should solve a lot of discussions.

 

I was just thinking, LM, in their EULA state that their offering is NOT for entertainment, as we all know.

 

It is going to be interesting to see what DTG have to say in theirs..

For entertainment only, not to be used for training/simulating flight?

 

That would be a concern, as I, & I'm sure many others, do not want to be entertained/play games. We want to learn, well, maybe some of us do, & try to do things as best we can.

 

So, that could leave a lt of us in the middle, as we would not, in our own minds qualify for either product.

 

Immersion vs realism again.. depends what we want, I surpose. To me, the immersion factor is very important, as, I'm sure it's the same with lots of others, we ge immersed & pretty focused in what we are doing. How many of us have completed a flight with sweaty hands after landing?

 

I have a problem with realism. Most of us have joysticks with twist grips.. Those with yokes & pedals, switch panels etc, my apologies..

 

We fly Boeings, Cessnas with joysticks!, use a mouse to click on our screens, twist the stick for rudder action, remember or try to remember key combinations.. the "A" & "S" presses, the list goes on.. Yes, we have those that 'fly' very complex aircraft by the numbers, but is that immersion or realiasm & does it really matter?

 

Maybe the LM distribution model would work for DTG.. A basic version for the majority/newbies/gamers to teach/tease them into flying & a 'Pro' version for the established guys that want more complex stuff.


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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So, even DTG call their stuff games! That should solve a lot of discussions.

 

Well, the name of the company is Dovetail Games, after all.......  :wink:

 

Which might be a hint. We could always ask them why the name didn't become Dovetail Simulations......

 

Good. Now we are all in same page again. Let's hope DTG stay onto too.

 

If that's the page where the original Flight Engine had plenty of room to grow into something better, then yes. But then, so did the original FSX engine. The problem is that FSX has almost reached its peak. (Unless it's pretty much re-written)

 

Most of us have joysticks with twist grips.

 

It's worse than that. In the muggle world, joysticks are ancient devices, the name of which causes waggling eyebrows and giggles. Flight had such nice mouse control for a reason......

 

Buying joysticks for War Thunder did become all the rage however, so maybe there'll be a rash of purchases. FLIGHT had me right on the verge of buying rudder pedals and trackIR before it was cancelled, something I've never considered for FSX or X-Plane

 

Maybe the LM distribution model would work for DTG.. A basic version for the majority/newbies/gamers to teach/tease them into flying & a 'Pro' version for the established guys that want more complex stuff.

 

You know what would happen, of course. The (probably) cheaper basic version would sell the best, and accordingly get the most support, and then........


Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.0GHz / 32.0GB G.SKILL TridentZ Series Dual-Channel Ram / ZOTAC GAMING GeForce® RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan / Sound Blaster Z / Oculus Rift VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 2x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 Motherboard

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I hope they end up calling it Dovetail Airplane Game.  This will solve a lot of problems, add a lot of benefits, and manage expectations better than Microsoft Flight did.  You won't expect something called "Airplane Game" to have SID/STARS and such, although it very well might in the future.  The casual gamer, looking for some fun, won't be put off by thinking it's too serious for him.

 

How to make it fun?  Add a few formal air races, stuff we used to do informally before.  Add a game called Wax My Tail, where two or more pilots try to cut a ribbon trailing another aircraft with their propeller, sometimes seen in the radio control community.  How to make it better than GTA V?  Fly out of a local airport in a plane that flies realistically. 

 

Will the airline pilots get left behind by this?  No.  PMDG can make them a whole new flight simulator.  It's not like anyone will ever be able to satisfy them anyway. 

 

The aircraft don't have to be PMDG quality.  They don't have to be A2A quality.  They just have to be fun.

 

Hook


Larry Hookins

 

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

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Dovetail World of Aviation......

 


PMDG can make them a whole new flight simulator.  It's not like anyone will ever be able to satisfy them anyway. 

 

Why would they have to, when P3D is beavering away as we speak? Not to mention X-plane.

 

So now, whatever DTG is doing has to be aimed squarely at the same audience, right? At least some that's what some people (not talking about you) seem to believe.

 

Because apparently "All simulations are belong to us."  :lol:

 

Hmmmm...... Time will tell if Dovetail agrees or not, and to what degree.


Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.0GHz / 32.0GB G.SKILL TridentZ Series Dual-Channel Ram / ZOTAC GAMING GeForce® RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan / Sound Blaster Z / Oculus Rift VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 2x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 Motherboard

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For entertainment only, not to be used for training/simulating flight?

 

That would be a concern, as I, & I'm sure many others, do not want to be entertained/play games. We want to learn, well, maybe some of us do, & try to do things as best we can.

 

What's new? The FSX EULA states:

2.    INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS.

a.    Licensed Device.

 

...this software is for entertainment purposes only.

 


Gerry Howard

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Yup, MS, at the time had 2x products, ESP... Not for Entertainment & FSX .. for Entertainment.


Dunno why serious flight guys are asking a games distributor for a sim?

Like asking Mc Donalds for a steak?


Robin


"Onward & Upward" ...
To the Stars, & Beyond... 

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Any consumer version of flight simulator is going to be limited for entertainment purpose only. No developer is going to the risk of its being used for any other purpose.


Gerry Howard

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