mu2 v1.5: what happened guys?

[hangar 660]

Sometimes I wonder if some people are flying this thing from the inside or the outside, heh. Has anyone noticed the huge change in drag between 1.5 and 1.6?

 

I can maintain around 160-170kias with only 30lbs. of torque now in clean configuration...and when dirty on final bringing it all the way back to 20-25lbs of torque speed won't bleed off and you can virtually float to the next airport if desired, lol.

 

Also, whatever changes you made has also killed the nice sound work that David did last week...because you no longer hear the engine sound increase when throwing the throttles forward for takeoff, sadly.

 

Nav mode and APP modes are broken using the GTN750...on 2 test flight I was not able to get the nav to capture laterally at all, and I was within 30 degrees of the final approach course.

 

Plane goes back to the hangar for me, IMO things have gotten technically worse rather than better. Honestly, I'm shocked you found this ready to be released to your partner stores and have moved on already to other projects.

 

...what happened guys?? is there mutiny in the ranks or somethin'? Seemed you were doing so well in the early stages and then it all just fell apart as you rushed it out the door after putting in only a 5 day beta.

[Flysimware 647]

First off there is no rush and we are still working on the MU. So be patient as our beta manager has been busy with a new job. So far the only improvements have been gauges that were not working and a few bugs. We did add David's new sound pack but i put the original back until Joe can approve it's ok as he designed the sound package. We did not change the drag besides the flaps drag so the overall drag is still the same. We did fix the sticky taxi issue and it might make the engines a bit stronger so maybe we need to add more drag to the model. Joe will make this adjustment.

 

Joe and i are working on the GPS approach mode!

 

We now have all gauges working 100% minus GPS approach. So yes i have finished my Nieuport 24 which has been on hold for 2 years and i just did a huge update for the C441 with standard features we use in our latest projects. Right now i am working on the newest project until i get some more feedback on issues and Joe can do some test flights. So far i have heard no complaints besides this post which i received today from a friend who will be joining out beta team soon.

 

I can say as long as Joe is ok with the new sound David tweaked we will have that in our next version with Joe's new flight dynamic tweak!

[louisdecoolste 12]

Not sure if this is the right place to suggest, but one gauge that could do with some more adjustment is the ADF. The inner/outer dial combo just doesn't do it for me.

 

The smaller dial only adjusts decimals? It should adjust the decimals and the digit prior to the decimal point, the outer bezel should adjust the first two digits. From a default 1400.0 it took me 3 minutes and 22 seconds to get to the 424.0 I needed by scrolling the mouse wheel - can't be `head down` for that length of time when in the pattern. Using the same technique in an aircraft with the digit split as above? 12 seconds.

Sometimes I wonder if some people are flying this thing from the inside or the outside, heh. Has anyone noticed the huge change in drag between 1.5 and 1.6?

 

I can maintain around 160-170kias with only 30lbs. of torque now in clean configuration...and when dirty on final bringing it all the way back to 20-25lbs of torque speed won't bleed off and you can virtually float to the next airport if desired, lol.

 

Also, whatever changes you made has also killed the nice sound work that David did last week...because you no longer hear the engine sound increase when throwing the throttles forward for takeoff, sadly.

 

Nav mode and APP modes are broken using the GTN750...on 2 test flight I was not able to get the nav to capture laterally at all, and I was within 30 degrees of the final approach course.

 

Plane goes back to the hangar for me, IMO things have gotten technically worse rather than better. Honestly, I'm shocked you found this ready to be released to your partner stores and have moved on already to other projects.

 

...what happened guys?? is there mutiny in the ranks or somethin'? Seemed you were doing so well in the early stages and then it all just fell apart as you rushed it out the door after putting in only a 5 day beta.

 

You're not mixing up your flight models are you? The only 1.6 posted is for the 441. Moo is still at 1.5.

[zmak 331]

Can I just jump in here and ask if we need to uninstall flysimware planes before installing the updates?

[louisdecoolste 12]

Advisable to, yes.

 

The updates are full installer packages and there's a built-in uninstaller from the main Windows menu, so probably best to.

[zmak 331]

Thanks

[hangar 660]

You're not mixing up your flight models are you? The only 1.6 posted is for the 441. Moo is still at 1.5.

 

yes thanks for that...should have read from 1.4 to 1.5, but it will not let me edit. Anyway...I won't be flying this again until Joe takes the time to seriously work on it.

 

I may be the only one speaking up due to low sales numbers and people who fly vfr, but that is NOT because I'm the only one seeing these issues. The plane needs attention and I think anyone who knows better would agree.

 

Also, this forum is labeled as being your OFFICIAL SUPPORT FORUM. Maybe you should have a hard think about that before claiming that you never log in here to read it...sounds pretty silly, and perhaps another area where you need to employ serious change.

 

Anyway I've said my piece, I'll leave you guys to it...it's your baby not mine.

[capceo 117]

yes thanks for that...should have read from 1.4 to 1.5, but it will not let me edit. Anyway...I won't be flying this again until Joe takes the time to seriously work on it.

 

I may be the only one speaking up due to low sales numbers and people who fly vfr, but that is NOT because I'm the only one seeing these issues. The plane needs attention and I think anyone who knows better would agree.

 

Also, this forum is labeled as being your OFFICIAL SUPPORT FORUM. Maybe you should have a hard think about that before claiming that you never log in here to read it...sounds pretty silly, and perhaps another area where you need to employ serious change.

 

Anyway I've said my piece, I'll leave you guys to it...it's your baby not mine.

 

Dave,

 

I run support here at the Avsim forums, not Mark. That's why he doesn't frequent the forums like I do. These are, in fact, the official support forums. And I do, in fact, show myself here almost daily. You may be the first person I have ever heard make a negative comment towards the support we provide to our customers.

 

Furthermore, the sales on the MU-2 have actually drastically exceeded our expectations. Our best seller by a LONG shot. We are working to get all of the bugs worked out, and you're just going to have to be patient with us. But we will get there. We've had a few hiccups along the way, just like everyone else.

 

Finally, thank you for your "suggestion" in terms of how we can improve. It is understandable that you would make such a remark, as most people have no idea what really goes in to developing an aircraft such as this for flight simulator, especially when we all have real jobs outside of flight sim development.

 

Anybody is more than welcome to get a copy of the necessary software and try producing their own FS projects. I actually encourage it. I wish more people understood what (and how long) it takes.

[hangar 660]

1. When the money is in my pocket I can be patient until the end of time, but when the money is in your pocket....easier said than done, Joe...especially when the basic nav systems are broken, the fde has been hacked to death, and the sound improvements have been suddenly removed...all with no reasonable explanation by anyone on your team, yet an official announcement that the plane is now good enough to release to stores and that you've moved onto another project....it's worrisome, and now to get  a response that says im just going to have to wait...well lets just say I think you may have needed to think that through and perhaps offered something a bit more soothing...maybe even a refund?..but hey, it's your business not mine...what do I know. It might also have helped to know WHICH specific bugs you are agreeable to fix. I feel as if I'm being told to sit down and shut up.

 

2. I have been a freeware game modder for the better part of 10+ years so I feel your frustration. I understand what it's like to to code line after line for hours on end and then have to spend weeks and weeks  testing over and over...the man hours can be huge whether it be freeware or payware...but you know what?...you are the one who has chosen to go the payware route and I am one of your customers. I do not suggest you go into your bosses office and complain that he'll just have to wait until you get those reports corrected because you have another job to tend to. The fact that you have another job should be YOUR problem, not your customers'.

 

Lastly I'd just like to point out that I was previously in contact with Mark trying to explain some of the nav issues and it seemed he just didn't understand. I felt there may have been a language barrier of sorts getting in our way and that it may be best to wait for you to speak with him upon youre return, as you had been gone for 5 or more days at the time. Next thing I know he's announcing the plane is good to go now and that he's moving on to a new plane project and no other explanation regarding whether or not the issues would be attended to any further..

 

...just left a real bad taste in my mouth. I hope you can understand.

 

Thanks

[zmak 331]

Dave I can see where your coming from however if you have purchased other payware planes You would be aware that nothing gets released spot on the very first time especially when we are talking system faithful planes and not point and fly toys

 

eg

 

Caranedo ...A complete and utter disaster..zero support

A2A simulations..When they produced war birds nobody complained because nobody could make a comparison however when they first entered the GA market with the C172 it was chaotic with endless patches and frayed tempers but they got it right in the end and learned a lot

PMDG.. also had a lot of problems with the 777 patch coming after 6 months to a year and didn't give customer feed back for months at a time (its still being patched)

 

And there are many more. These guys rely heavily on Customer feedback and Flysimware are no differant. Joe is a hell of a lot friendlier than your average DEV as well, I mean how many DEVS offer free shared on line training flights in a plane they are rated in?

 

Its only been a week or 2. Give it some time and maybe relax a little as well B)

[hangar 660]

I've been around awhile and understand how poor customer service can be at times no matter who it is, due to lack of communication or other facets. But we're talking apples/oranges here...Carenado is a disaster, granted...but in general with PMDG, Realair...etc...when they release with bugs it's not typically the sort of bugs that stop you from flying the plane as it was meant to be flown, or stop you from using the basic nav/gps features such as the flight director and its associated modes. I will not mention the other issues again that I have already outlined previously.

 

But, my point (or disappointment) has nothing to do with waiting for something to be fixed. It is the fact that the only communication I saw after reporting the nav issues and other issues was that they announced the plane is good to go and that they have moved on. Now keep in mind we are talking about a 2 person team here as far as I know. When 2 guys say they've started a new project and that they are releasing the mu2 to stores since its good enough, well...need I go on? There was no other communication to stop me from thinking of the obvious in a situation like that. it's not as if they said something like "dont worry, were still hard at work fixing the following issues with the mu2 #1, #2, #3, etc."

 

So please understand...Im 50...ive thrown thousands of dollars at all these guys over the past 15-20 years now in support...and frankly...while Joe and Mark may be one of the good guys (I really do not know), I'm tired of being crapped on to put it quite bluntly. We have enough half finished broken planes we've all paid for and all I was doing was reporting my findings and being ignored.

 

...and then the first thing that Joe decides to respond with is sorry youll just have to wait, try building your own plane while working a 2nd job. He may be a nice guy as you say, but he apparently thinks it's ok to treat customer's like an idiot...or at least he did this evening anyway,.

[zmak 331]

"but in general with PMDG,....when they release with bugs it's not typically the sort of bugs that stop you from flying the plane"

 

Just wanted to correct you on this. I didnt fly it for 6 months along with many others because of stability issues. There are dozens of pages on google about major  bugs that shouldn't be in a $90 plane

 

However you are 100% correct, in theory no plane should be released with serious issues

[N405GJ 36]

Hangar, I have reached out to you recently to try to help alleviate some of your frustrations. First off, let me state that I am in no way officially affiliated with Flysimware for what that's worth so I'm just another customer trying to help make an already great product even better.

 

I understand your feelings and frustrations about certain fixes and bugs corrected. We all have them as paying customers. I shared a link with you that would allow you to join the Flysimware FB group and get in direct contact with these guys. From what I see, your knowledge could go a long ways to helping these guys get systems fixed and functioning properly. Give it a shot. Having also been severely disappointed with the recent releases from Carenado, I was ecstatic to actually be able to get on FB messenger with Mark and share what I know, and bugs I have found. And then to go one step further, I was invited into the company Teamspeak to share my thoughts and suggestions. Think you would get that with Carenado, PMDG, Etc?

 

To sum up what I have learned, Mark is the 3D artist and coder, and Joe is the expert providing the information Mark needs to tweak things and make it all come together. As well as being the one that deals with the majority of the customer service items. They are good guys, more than willing to work with customers to make improvements. The fact that a relatively new company that they are, is this open, and making such drastic improvements with each release, is something I don't think you will find in other development companies.

 

Do they have our money? Yes. Are you (or anyone else) being ignored? Not at all. I am happy to share my 20+ years of aviation knowledge with these guys to make the MU better, and fix what's broken. Many developers, free and payware, have full time jobs, families to support, and real lives outside of our community. This has to be understood on the most basic human level. Cut them a little slack.

 

And lastly, at the risk of sounding a bit harsh, if you truly like the product, and want it fixed, don't go running to the forums complaining and bickering when you have methods of communications available to you to provide your input. Just because a guy is great at making 3D models, and putting together a nice aircraft, does not mean he is an expert at RNAV/RNP approaches or IFR flying. Share your knowledge, teach them how it's supposed to work. If it's possible to make the aircraft do what you want within the limitations of FSX and reality, they will make it happen. This I will guarantee with my own hard earned money buy giving you a refund myself if that is what it comes down too.

 

Let's remember that this community is relatively small, and it is incredibly daunting for an upstart to create products to the level they already are. We all want quality products. And the next project in the pipeline will be even better. Put your experiences with other companies aside and let's help these guys get better. They can and will do it. Be a part of the solution if your willing to spend a little time with Mark and Joe. I know I am, and it feels great to be a very small part of the end goal.

 

Ok, that's the end of my exhausted end of the day rant. I hope you can understand what I'm getting at by my wall of text above.

[louisdecoolste 12]

Not sure how we can put Flysimware on the same pedestal as either PMDG or Carenado? They are a small development team, and it is clear from this and other releases that their business motto is get it out there and use the customer resource to help get it right. For a small development team that is how it must be. If you don't want to be part of that, don't be an early adopter. I've learned that lesson with Carenado and Alabeo and the money is staying in my pocket, as the difference is that neither of those two so-called companies actually care. This is still a work in progress - and it has to be said it's had far more progress than the other developer working on a Moo.

 

Dave, your frustration spilled over. You've now been told that development is ongoing, Can we not just stop wasting developer time arguing your misconceptions and get on with the better option of helping them make it better? 

 

Joe, perhaps you can highlight what is being looked at right now? 

[hangar 660]

last time im repeating it guys, I appreciate your inputs and I sincerely don't want to continue an argument...I DID my part as a paying beta tester (seriously?...at least they're honest about it here which is refreshing)...I was in contact with the coder several times trying to explain the issues...he failed to understand and stopped contacting me so I waited for Joe and posted here in the forums since Joe was missing in action for several days...and the rest is history. So after reading my posts Joe basically tells me sorry, you'll just have to wait and in the meantime try building your own plane while having 2 jobs.

 

I've been known in my life for having a very long fuse, and for being patient as pie as a beta tester working endless hours during my quiet season when I have the availability. But having my email responses ignored, then having been told that they've moved on already after a testing period of only a few days with such glaring issues that remain, having thrown $70 to them within 3 weeks to show my support of the hobby and their effort...and then being somewhat slammed by Joe's poor c/s attitude because he's a bit miffed that I commented about how their official support forum has had no support for about a week from him without reason or warning that he would be away or unable to work is just a tad much for me these days, sorry.

 

Some of you may feel that you get better results from him, but I unfortunately am not impressed right now I must admit.