Seems Rob is still out for blood, he seems to be trying to discredit DSB in every way possible despite their efforts to correct the situation.

>So just so we understand each other, are you implying "THEY" >couldn't reply on a Thursday or Friday, for a show that was on a >Saturday and Sunday according to the show website.I dunno, when I go to these sort of shows/events Friday is usually an arrival day, with usually some sort of cocktails etc on the Friday evening. If I were in that situation with a customer It'd be unlikely I'd be getting back to them on that Friday.This also of course depends on what time it was sent Thursday as to whether they'd be able to respond on Thursday as well. I seem to remember seeing some sort of notice in bold text on the simflight site that they wouldn't be available much during the days leading up to the event.So really we have to give Simmarket a little slack for at least 2 of the 4 days.As to whether they only responded because Rob went public ? Really not enough time passed to say for certain that was the case. Those who wish to speculate of course will continue to do so.Regards.Ernie.

It has all been seen before and that's why some people remain suspicous of DSB. Take note of the posts by people who have done work for them.It is not a history which inspires trust. There is already information which contradicts some of the things in the DSB post.

Rob did receive a reply before DSB posted public. Read the original thread. It was over the weekend. It is JMO that he received the runaround. DSB posted when the stuff hit the fan here at AVSIM. I don't know why SimMarket has been thrown into this. I know they market the product but there is no way they would know what is pirated and what isn't.

Whilst I think you often just like to "stir things up" ;-) You've probably hit the nail on the head here."EDIT-Reading between the lines in your post, I've a feeling you missed the nail!"The culprit in all this is the person that used Rob's code in the release, having previously entered into a contract with DSB stating it to be his own work.To be fair, there's no way on earth a publisher can guarantee this will never happen. It has, it does and it certainly will in the future.....that's life. Sometimes it's a mistake, and sometimes not.Similarly, Simmarket can't (and shouldn't) be expected to pull products straight away, simply because someone claims copyright theft. Whether 4 days is too long or not, I don't know, though I'm actually surprised the product was pulled as quick as it was, especially given there was a FS show and a weekend in the way. Also, I see the product was pulled very soon after the show ended, implying this was a factor in the timing.Rob, is undoubtedly the main victim in all this and the muddying of the water by DSB really does not make them look good at all. I'd have thought the simple solution for DSB is of course to just own-up, say sorry and pay-up. They (DSB) are the public face of the product and should feel obliged to settle this in public and quickly. How they recover their costs from their secret developer who has (it seems......and with little doubt) tricked them, is of course up to them.And to those that think this issue is over and the thread needs to be locked...........shame on you. This should remain very public until such time as a settlement is reached, otherwise it will just get pushed aside.Good luck Rob.Paul Golding

"He has no financial gain from DSB Design apart from any sales made from his own products since the business was signed over to me earlier this year."Based on that, I believe signed over means ownership was transferred.My point about the CEO was that DSB used a false name.

Hmm let's all read the posts again and mark carefully ALL of the recent development's in Mr Brice's life.....

Eric and Michael, The topic has a title so you know what it's about. If you are not interested in the topic, skip it and don't read it. Even more so, don't ask to drop the subject. This is an important topic to many in this community hence all of the reaction to it. If it wasn't it would be down on page 5 by now.Dave---------------------------------------------------System Specs:Athlon64 3500+ ClawHammerECS NForce4 A-939 Mobo (1ghz FSB)2 Gigs OCZ Performance PC3200 Ram (Dual Channel)ATI Radeon X800Pro PCI-E 256MB (Catalyst 5.6 @ 550/540)SoundBlaster Live 24bitSaitek Cyborg EvoWinXP SP1

>Seems to me someone is out to harm Simmarket and DSB despite>efforts by DSB (Simmarket is not involved in any way, they're>a victim like DSB is) to find out what happened and rectify>the situation if such is warranted.>>It's all been seen before. In the end everyone looses except>the single individual whose mission it is to harm the hobby>for everyone.Jeroen,IF, and ONLY IF you mean me (Rob Barendregt) by "someone" and the "single individual":Get your facts straight.1. I have NEVER ONCE accused Simmarket in any way; I have only stated the simple fact, WITHOUT COMMENT, that (when asked by an other poster if I addressed Simmarket) that I did, and that I had no response yet. With the correction, that 5 minutes after I wrote that, it WAS pulled (because of a request by Lou Betti). 2. Whether DSB Design is a victim or not: that has to be established.But IF it turns out they ARE just an innocent victim: trust me, I will do anything in my power to undo this whole issue.But do you really think I would have started this if I wasn't 200% sure ?????Lastly, if you DO mean ME by that "single individual", please say so.But since I'm not 100% sure, I'll refrain from commenting now.Rob Barendregt

>Seems Rob is still out for blood, he seems to be trying to>discredit DSB in every way possible despite their efforts to>correct the situation.>Quite the contrary! DSB has done an excellent job of discrediting itself! First the piracy, then the refusal to answer to allegations, then the various names of people that don't exist and smoke/mirrors about who's in charge, then the continued lack of actually DOING something to repair the damage. Rob has done and is doing nothing to damage or discredit this company....The biggest joke of all is that this Mr. Brice claims that he can completely redesign and reprogram xml gauges from scratch in 24 hours!!! Yeah...RIGHT!Here's an idea...why doesn't DSB own up to the terrible mess that has become of it, take legal action against their "super top secret" contributor who's actions of stealing intellectual property have done irreperable harm to the company, and finally...and most importantly, immediately remove the product from distribution/sale, and publicly offer anyone who purchased this product a full refund as any money's gained from it's sale are obviously at most of dubious origin!And no....I don't own the product, although I do own almost every Flight-1 software release....many FSD-International releases and have a long loyal spending history with Simmarket.DSB Designs has a choice.......stop babbling and DO SOMETHING to prove your intentions....dump the Harrier rather than trying to supposedly "fix" it with highly suspicious "shuffling of the code", or continue on your present course of rhetoric and inaction and risk any hopes of making DSB a respected/trusted company ever again.

Being straightforward with posts does help somewhat.I actually read and initially responded to the post on the assumption that Jeroen was talking about the "person" that used your code. Upon a few re-reads, I was interpreting the post along the same lines as you, hence the edit to my post.http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg

Your response to this entire situation is at the least a bit underwhelming. You spend a great deal of time trying to explain away this Max Monroe and who owns/operates/manages/cleans/stocks/blah blah blah.....which in light of the seriousness of the allegations against DSB is secondary to the company (by whichever name, owned by whomever) taking immediate actions to make good on the errors it has committed. Firstly, since the entire product is extremely tainted, it should be removed from sale and distribution, since any money gained by anyone from it is of dubious origin. Then I would suggest you offer a full refund to anyone who purchased this piece of stolen property.Here in the U.S. you can be jailed for the possession and/or sale of stolen property. This is infact the act you are committing by continuing to sell the product. The fact that you claim you didn't know the property was stolen does give you legal recourse against the supplier (code-writer/contributor) but does not excuse your obligations to your consumers. It's that simple. You're playing the hide-the-bunny blame game, but not addressing the issue! And most importantly, please don't take us for idiots when you state that Mr. Brice will completely re-write and replace an entire xml and advanced programming solution in a mere 24-48 hours......If Mr. Brice is in fact even capable of creating a complex xml gauage solution for the Harrier in a mere 24 or so hours...why in the heck would he have contracted out the job to this mysterious third party in the first place???Many are watching DSB......it's up to you now...please do the RIGHT thing....

Opening post is a lenthy, Courteously worded & well rounded attempt to calm the situation and get away. And if they had a consulting lawyer, I bet the letter would have been much shorter and much less nice. Working in law for quite a while now and I think there are two things they will not do without being legally acted upon unless they are very stupid or very religious:1. compensation by means of money2. acknowlegement of piracyAnd much much less so given you guys are scattered all over the world.So really this is the most you are going to get. Facing accusations like this, DSB as a business is already over-averagely nice by appologizing to you publically. And they did so only to save their own public image. Code has been replaced (BTW, whatever that means. Maybe the same book with a different cover) and sales goes on. I am totally for you in this case and the least I can do is not to purchase anything from this business ever. But down the venue you've chosen to take, what else do you expect? Yes they stole from you and you have no problem proving it. But the question is simply...what else can you do about it? And as of Simmarket...come on, we can't expect them to pull a product just based on a web based trouble ticket in one day. Even if the communication is made by a lawyer or judge it takes at least a recorded phone conversation to get some serious attention.

I've been critical of DSB but let's give Simmarket some credit.The did remove the Harrier. They can't be expected to remove a product immediately on reciept of a complaint about it. They need time to investigate it.Also, Simmarket is one of the few (only?) sites to comply with EU law by putting a postal address on their site.

Changed my mind lol