Preparing for my first VATSIM flight in the NGX

[captain_adf 16]

I only have a modest 100 hours or so in the NGX. I recently started getting curious about VATSIM but I knew I didn't know the plane well enough to fly it online, especially with the extremely demanding (and unrealistic) complications of simultaneously acting as both captain and f/o. Plus, I wasn't convinced that my flows were all that accurate. So I decided to give FS2Crew a try. I'm totally hooked and will never look back!

 

Setup took about an hour, including the speech recognition setup. The documentation is superb and walks you through everything you need to get started. Still a little doubtful about what to expect, I followed the tutorial and when I landed I sat back in complete awe that I had actually done it. Then I did the same flight 4 more times, each time learning progressively more about both the NGX and the proper distribution of responsibilities between the captain and the f/o.

 

So now I'm trying to prepare for my first flight on VATSIM. I've flown the route (SFO-LAX) about 8 times now, and I've been listening to liveatc following flights on the same route, to get a feel for the various ATC restrictions that come up. Last night I followed an entire flight and wrote down all the ATC instructions, noting exactly where the plane was at each call. Then I flew the same route, and mimicked talking to ATC while following all those instructions. Unfortunately I forgot my landing checklist, so I'm but I *almost* made it!

 

Besides practice and studying the FCOM, does anyone have any advice on what else can I do to prepare to make my first VATSIM flight a success? I want to make a good first impression on my local controllers

[vcarlo 529]

Very impressed with all your preparations... I would guess 99.9% of new VATSIM pilots don't go half as far before their first flight. Rather than practice offline, why not perform some NGX flights on VATSIM outside of the heavily traveled routes and get used to communicating with live controllers. Once you are comfortable with reading back clearances and other instructions, you are ready for the LAX - SFO flight on VATSIM.

 

Jump in .. the water's fine !!

[codechris 9]

[sorry about the essay, but I've recently started on Vatsim and have learnt a lot in the last 3 months]

 

I spent around 6 months flying the NGX before I got FS2Crew, then around 3-4 months flying with FS2Crew before jumping in to VATSIM. You say 100 hours is modest, I can't believe I am anywhere near that

 

To help me, I didn't plan a route as you are doing, though that's not a bad idea, however I did watch lots of YouTube videos on people flying on Vatsim and wrote down all the main parts. However, when it comes to decent, that could be anything to be honest.  London is busy almost every night, and whenever coming in, I see common patterns, however these are only what I see in the STAR charts anyway. Descended to FLXXX Level by XXX, a lot of these are in the STAR or in the airport arrival information. I rarely exactly follow a STAR in to London though. In fact, be prepared to not follow a STAR if it's busy

 

I don't think you will get the ATC you are hearing from real ATC however there many be common similarities. As long as you get the delivery and ground section right, you'll be fine from a take-off perspective. That's quite easy. Only problem I've had there is having a controller that's a little tricky to understand, and trying to work out which SID they are speaking of, if it's a different SID from what PFPX planned. But, I think my ear has tuned to that, and I make sure I have the list in front of me to help. More of a problem in Europe when accents vary so wildly and level of English as well, but that add's to it for me. What I do is write down all the ATC frequencies of what I will expect as passengers are boarding on a notepad. so Del, Gnd, Two, App for both airports and then any centres I will have along the way. I have a laptop open next to me with Navigraph and Vatstatic open as well as my PFPX plan so it's very easy to get a view on everything I need. The last thing you want is a controller repeating a frequency to you a few times, that being said, after the second time they will send it to you in text. I used to use up two A4 pages of writing stuff down, but over time this is down to one A4 or less, depending. So pencil and paper is essential. Write everything down.

 

But approach, especially in to somewhere busy like London, can be very tricky. My second flight I was in an event for the airport of LIMC with full ATC staff and there was a tonne of traffic over Austria, Switzerland and Italy. It was quite intense, but nothing I couldn't handle. It was especially so because I'd never flown in to LIMC so wasn't familiar with the area. The ATC over Austria and Switzerland where having a hard time trying to let people descend and give good distance. It was really fun!

 

To be honest though, no amount of watching or reading could have helped. It was just about knowing my aircraft. I will say however, my third flight was again an event in to Helsinki, and again a lot of people coming in. I was on finals and plane ahead of me was having issues so was told to go around, however I'd never performed a go around with FS2Crew, so I had no idea what the flows where. I used my brain and worked it out on the fly, but that was REALLY hard. However, in those situations, if you're really having a hard time with FS2Crew, just leave it and fly the plane. Flying the plane is the most important thing, even in real life. So, if you find yourself fighting FS2Crew a bit, just sack it off and complete the flight. It's better the complete then mess the whole flight up because you where stuck with FS2Crew.

 

That being said, try not to focus too much on what you have heard on live ATC, that may muddle you in flight if you're expecting something, then told something widely different, it could ruin your flows and speed and so forth.

 

If you're using vPilot, I would say don't use the audio option to enable VHF simulation. That really makes the voices difficult for me. YMMV

 

When you get to cruise, study those arrival information charts. Find anything that can help give you predictions. I would also say, to make things easier for you, don't try and be too realistic. A lot of European airports state to use no more the idle reverse if at all possible. I can now try and do things like this, but complications such as these can really give you too much to think about. Think about getting the plane up and down, correct ATC and all of that. Going ultra realistic can throw you

 

Another bit, get hold of scenery for the airports you are flying to and from. Even if it's freeware, this just makes sure you a good chance of having the correct taxi-ways and stands. In fact, almost all of my airports are freeware, and some are really great such as LIMC

 

How about this idea though. Find an aiport that is manned and busy, pick a copter or small GA aircraft. Set it to be really out the way so you won't bother anyway. Engines off, and listen to ATC. You're hearing live ATC, not interfearing with anyone and you will hear real vatsim traffic. You will also find out that a lot of people get confused, lost, do the wrong things, and ATC will help. That will make you feel better about it.

 

My final piece; ensure you either check the calenders and have ATC at, at the very least, departure and arrival airports, or, do it when there is an event so you are guaranteed ATC. But, they can be busy. Depends how brave you are. My first 4-5 flights on Vatsim where events. I don't think I've ever been so stressed playing a game. But, I learnt a lot, nobody died and was good fun. I will add, first 3 landings where auto landings. The ATC, frequency changes and dealing with FS2Crew, as well as flying the thing, was just too much for me to cope with. Without FS2Crew, I would have been ok, but with flying the plane plus my checklists and FS2Crew phrases and sections in front of me, it was so easy to find myself a little out of control. Autoland gave me more time. That might be an idea. Like I said though, I was flying events, it was busy and fast in the last 30 minutes

 

Also, this isn't Pilot Edge. I've watched some videos on that and even now, I still get confused just watching them. Vatsim is friendly, very understanding and there are are lots of people the same as you.

[ACA034137 37]

I find a lot of people who are setting out on their first Vatsim flight tend to overthink it.  You won't get booted or banned because you're learning.  Most of the controllers are very patient, and very accommodating. 

 

Before I did my first flight, I loaded up in a heavily controlled area (ATIS, GND, TWR, APP/DEP, CTR), during a Vatsim event.  All I did was tune into the various frequencies, and listened.  Got a sense of how formal the parlance needed to be. 

 

After that, I focused on flying in uncontrolled areas, all the while monitoring UNICOM (122.800).  This helped me get comfortable flying in situations where there are other pilots online. 

 

Finally, I put all my prior experiences together, and I've never looked back.  Love flying on Vatsim, whether there's online control or not.

 

Out of curiosity, what Vatsim client are you using?

[MarkW 1,486]

You will be very well prepared and certainly more prepared than the vast majority of Vatsim pilots when they start out.  Enjoy the flight!

[captain_adf 16]

Thanks for the awesome advice!

 

I have vpilot, but haven't logged in yet. I chose it because it's the first link on the vatsim site and seems to be the newest client. I will take your advice and avoid the VHF simulation option since I definitely want to be able to hear clearly. I also like the idea of logging in and just listening, I've read you can put "newbie - listening" in the notes and just sit at a gate to observe.

 

The main reason I want to try sfo-lax first is that I know the route by heart, including all the SIDS, STARS, and common deviations. I've flown it a dozen times now so I'm quite comfortable with it in the ngx. I'm confident I can handle any alt or speed restrictions and visual landings no problem. However, I've not practiced go-around or holds yet. Have you ever had to do a hold on vatsim? I'll be sure to consult the FCOM and practice holding.

[metalmike 34]

Put in your remarks that you're new to Vatsim. The controllers will be helpful and accomodating.

As for doing holds...the only time I've had to do them is during busy events. The only one I can remember from recently was during the latest Heathrow overload event, and in that case, the hold was already part of the programmed arrival by default.

 

If you're already familiar with the NGX FMS, I'm sure you can figure how to work the HOLDS page.

 

Trust me, everything will come much easier than you think it will!

[codechris 9]

Never had a hold, even in an extremely busy London airspace. However, I almost asked for a hold on Monday flying from ENRY to EGLL because I had a huge tail wind and meeting my alt restriction was proving very difficult. Actually, you know this is a good example. This is how it went, pretty much word for word and I'd like to point out I had no idea what the procedure was at all, so I just asked. Also, I knew there would be possible exceptions for FL250 by LOGAN and FL150 by SABER from the arrival information charts (note, I'm not talking about the STAR chart);

 

"RYR8947 decent FL150 level by SABER"

"FL150 level by SABER 8947"

... a few minutes past, my speed is high and my green arc is telling me I won't hit it untill BRASO

"London Control, this is RYR8947 I have a terrible tail wind and hitting 150 by SABER is going to be really difficult"

"RYR8947 can you give me an exception what what hight you will be by SABER?"

"Give me a second 8947"

... I then make a turn towards SABER as per the LAM3A arrival and the tail turns in to more of a crosswind

"London Control, I've now turned and I will now be able to meet the 150 by SABER, RYR8947"

"RYR8947 thank you very much"

 

Very fast, lots of speed break, a high VS, but achievable.

 

I have no idea if that's "realistic" or the "proper way to do it" but that's what happened. I expect, given how busy it was, he'd have directed me north (can't go south because of London City airport), then back south on to the SID for LAM once I had lost altitude. I expect, I don't know, but that's what's happened in similar situations.

 

But as you see, I was in a tricky situation, I asked, and this time I was lucky, but in others times I've not been so lucky. One of my first Vatsim flights, I was high and was wondering what to do, I didn't say anything but hoped I'd sort it by early flaps, looking back I probably should have asked, but again, very busy. The controller contacted me, said I was too high, and vectored me out and back in. Very helpful, dealt with the situation and everything was good.

 

That being said, practice go-arounds with FS2Crew, go-arounds on your own are pretty easy, FS2Crew you need the procedure if you want him/her all the way. You only really need 1 or two attempts. Holds are also good to practice, however you don't interact with FS2Crew for those.

 

As I said, you're going in very prepared, I went from a known airport to an unknown during an event and was fine. So you will be to

[captain_adf 16]

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

 

I'm really looking forward to this. I never thought it would interest me but after watching some of musicalaviator's flights on youtube, suddenly vatsim seemed like a really appealing challenge. With fs2crew, that really gives me the ability to focus on flying and I can have the f/o tune radios for me which will really help.

 

I bought the captain's bundle which includes the audio ground school. It's kind of dry and nothing you wouldn't find in the fcom, but you can copy the audio files to your mp3 device. I put them on shuffle play and listen on the bus, I'm always learning something new about the ngx!

 

Yeah, the holds page is fairly intuitive, but I think I'll practice a couple times just to be safe.

 

I've got lax from fsdt and fb's sfo, so I know I will match up to actual airport diagrams.

 

One more question: are the frequencies used on vatsim the same as in real life? Can I get them from the charts or do I need to check the vatsim site to get the freqs?

[ExNusquam 11]

Aside from the stacks going into EGLL, the only real hold I've done on VATSIM was during the ZDC inauguration event in 2009 when approach stopped accepting arrivals. That should tell you how infrequent they get assigned. 

 

As others have said, fly the plane first, then navigate, then communicate. Additionally, make sure you know exactly what the arrival/departure should look like and what navaids you should have tuned (if applicable). While most controllers are more than helpful, explaining why you deviated from a clearance with something like "my FMS..." or "my autopilot..." will get them a bit chaffed. 

[codechris 9]

Yeah I think they are, although I check Vatstatic, Vatspy or whatever you want to use, and also vPilot will tell you the freqs. Having Vatstatic open on another monitor really helps me out.

 

Musicalaviators videos really helped me, in fact watching those probably helped me the most. But also Belynz and a few others.

 

Ha, that reminds of of when I was flying in to..I think EHAM, one time, and I didn't have the STAR. So I requested another, one that was on my plan and in my FMS, and he said he would just vector me in. That was the point that I updated my FMS data. He was nice enough about it though. That's probably a good point though, how olds your nav data? That one time was enough for me to update, even though it wasn't a big deal. I could have actually flown the approach without the STAR in my arrivals anyway. Just being new, it threw me

[captain_adf 16]

I'm using the latest navdata from navigraph. I also applied the 2015 magvar update from http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids.html

 

It's good to know the freqs are probably correct but I'll cross check with vpilot and vatstatic.

[skelsey 765]

It's good to know the freqs are probably correct but I'll cross check with vpilot and vatstatic.

 

To be honest, the frequencies are next to the controller callsigns in the vPilot ATC list, and that's the best place to start: they will almost always be based on the real frequencies, but you have to bear in mind that many of the positions that exist in real life may not be manned on VATSIM, so because of the "top down" system you may well be using a different frequency (i.e. speaking to an Approach or Centre controller rather than a Ground controller), and enroute sectors will usually be bandboxed (stuck together) to a much greater extent than the real world.

 

Have you done the P1 course? If not, I'd highly recommend it: it's relatively painless but will give you all the basics you need to know in terms of procedures and how the network works. http://academy.vatsim.net/

[scandinavian13 5,192]

I want to make a good first impression on my local controllers

 

Here's a list to impressing VATSIM controllers:

• Aviate, navigate, communicate - fly the plane, ensure it's going in the proper direction, and then respond. If I give you a turn and see the leader line on your target move in the proper direction, that's confirmation enough that you heard me until you respond to confirm we're on the same page.
• Don't log on for your first flight (ever, or first flight with a new plane) when there's an event going on. Choose a slower time. Controllers appreciate it, and given the lower traffic levels, can usually respond to questions you might have a lot better.
• Avoid filing odd routes (if flying in the United States, verify against FlightAware). If the route isn't what is in the agreement between my facility and the next, I need to go get an exception from them because you won't be fitting into their normal traffic streams. DIRECT is frowned upon as well, unless the airports are relatively close. If you really want DIRECT, file/fly VFR.
• Request clearance without saying "as filed." If you weren't requesting your clearance "as filed" why would you have filed your flight plan like that?
• When checking in with a new center/departure/approach controller, use "[Facility Name], [Callsign], [Altitude]." Leave "with you" out of that. Where else would you be if I'm hearing your voice on my freq? Also, if it's busy, I don't need a ride report, your lunch order, or any other extraneous info. At best, the most extra info I need would be the ATIS code.
• If you're checking in with a center/departure/approach controller after being "uncontrolled," include your location to the nearest VOR, airport, or well known fix (SID/STAR transitions, or fixes with altitude restrictions are usually pretty good). Hit VOR on the ND and estimate. If you don't know the long name, use the three letter ID.
• If an ATIS is present, listen to it, listen to the information in it, and include the ATIS code on first contact with tower (outbound) and approach (inbound).
• Do not ask center for runways in use. When you're with them, you're still far enough out that it might change. Approach controllers now usually give it to you on the first approach controller you speak to. It'll be in the ATIS if you can receive it. If you can't receive it, that's a good sign that you're still too far out.
• Never blame the automation. If it's doing something weird, change to a different AP mode and do what you need to do to fix it. If you feel that it's going to affect how you respond to instructions, inform the controller. They may just vector you to keep it simple until you figure it out.
• Never put "RW PILOT" in the remarks. This is usually done by student and private pilots who want you to trust them more. Neither have much experience with IFR ops, though, so it usually means I trust them less because they want you to think they know what they're doing when they usually don't. Want to impress a controller? Read the rest of this list.
• If you're in doubt, ASK!
• Understand that the controller is doing this for fun.

 

...but most of all?

 

Be willing to say "hey, I'm new at this" when you call for clearance. When you fly through my airspace I'll give you the same instructions, but I'll avoid assigning anything complex and leave a tiny bit more room around you just in case. Being new isn't a bad thing.

 

Aside from the stacks going into EGLL, the only real hold I've done on VATSIM was during the ZDC inauguration event in 2009 when approach stopped accepting arrivals. That should tell you how infrequent they get assigned. 

 

haha - I remember that one. I don't recall us regularly issuing holds since then, though I know I've issued a couple holds for people to kill altitude. I usually just vector for spacing if I can.

 

As others have said, fly the plane first, then navigate, then communicate. Additionally, make sure you know exactly what the arrival/departure should look like and what navaids you should have tuned (if applicable). While most controllers are more than helpful, explaining why you deviated from a clearance with something like "my FMS..." or "my autopilot..." will get them a bit chaffed. 

 

Absolutely. My primary expectation of a controller is that you execute the command while reading back, or just before (unless you're unsure of the command). Controlling is a delicately timed process when things get busy and since VATSIM pilots don't have the quick clip of real world pilots, by the time the readback is complete and they get up to the MCP, the window I had is minimal, or gone. Some slow reactions are understandable, but in the middle of an event, I do get pretty quippy if people are not being very courteous to me or any of the other pilots around them. There are way too many pilots who do not understand that their lack of attention affects every pilot in a merging stream, and usually every pilot behind them (though if everything lines up properly, I can "eject" the offending pilot from the stream by giving the other pilots additional instructions until I find an open slot to merge them back into).

 

As far as the FMC/Autopilot issue goes, that is one of my biggest complaints about the VATSIM crowd. Automation didn't make anyone do anything. Lack of attention, and lack of understanding the automation made that happen. This is why I stress that people really, really need to check out the tutorials and intro manuals before jumping on VATSIM. This is also why I really discourage all of those group flight ideas that pop up around new releases. All I can think as a controller is "yes, what I really want is a ton of people in a plane they probably haven't flown before trying to learn how to fly it (or at least as they trip over the differences) while I'm trying to keep them from hitting each other, and a bunch of other people..."

[metalmike 34]

 

• Request clearance without saying "as filed." If you weren't requesting your clearance "as filed" why would you have filed your flight plan like that?

 

This is such a pet peeve of mine! I'm not even a controller, but I've never understood why people do this.