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I have to ask what is Microsoft idea behind not allowing users to control updates in Windows 10?

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Of course, they haven't clarified yet

 

You need to read that article more carefully ... quoting from the article you listed:

 

 

 

Gabe Aul, an engineering general manager for Microsoft’s operating systems group, said in a tweet that people who upgrade a device to Windows 10 during the first year of its existence will be able to perform a clean reinstall of Windows 10 on the same device “any time.”

 

key operative "clean reinstall on the same device" .. that is not the same as "clean install" on any device the first time.

 

and to quote again from your article link

 

 

 

That functionality will be underpinned by a Windows 10 feature that will allow people to reinstall the operating system and hold onto their files—or delete the files entirely and start fresh. Aul went on to say that the same deal will apply to people who restore from a .ISO disk image file rather than using the built-in reset service. All of that is good news for users, since performing a clean installation can sometimes help alleviate problems with a troubled computer.

 

It'll get you to a "clean" slate, but you still have to have Win7 or Win8 on your system and it has to be the same system (probably keyed by a combination of BIOS, CPU, HD identifiers) prior to installing Windows 10 upgrade for the first time.  Key wording here is "reinstall".  If it weren't this way, then the requirement to have Win7 and Win8 to get the free upgrade would be meaningless ... and I doubt that's the case since Microsoft desperately want to get people OFF of Win7/Win8.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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You need to read that article more carefully ... quoting from the article you listed:

 

 

key operative "clean reinstall on the same device" .. that is not the same as "clean install" on any device the first time.

 

and to quote again from your article link

 

 

It'll get you to a "clean" slate, but you still have to have Win7 or Win8 on your system and it has to be the same system (probably keyed by a combination of BIOS, CPU, HD identifiers) prior to installing Windows 10 upgrade for the first time.  Key wording here is "reinstall".  If it weren't this way, then the requirement to have Win7 and Win8 to get the free upgrade would be meaningless ... and I doubt that's the case since Microsoft desperately want to get people OFF of Win7/Win8.

 

Cheers, Rob.

Ok, yes. However I still don't know how they're going to prohibit reinstallations if you use the same serial key. As long as it's not an OEM version.

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I have to say it's a very muddled response. At the end it states

 

 

All of that is good news for users, since performing a clean installation can sometimes help alleviate problems with a troubled computer.

 

When, as you point out Rob, everything in that article points to upgrades and reinstalls. What is a clean re-install. It's a clean install, or an upgrade. Clean re-install really sounds like what they are saying is you can upgrade, and delete your files with it, not upgrade and don't. The key section is this;

 

 

and hold onto their files—or delete the files entirely and start fresh

 

The argument from there is saying "what if I have an issue and need to reinstall. And this comes down to using the built-in re-install which is part of the OS. Rather then booting from a USB or DVD and installing the OS with a reformat. Essentially this is not too different from the install now, except you cannot reformat the drive. But then maybe you can if you burn your W10 upgrade ISO to a USB/DVD. All in all, a little muddled. We'll find out in a month I guess.

 

I'm just looking forward to not having to click a button on my joystick ever 20-30 minutes to make sure it's still alive :)

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Where does Microsoft state that a user must have Win 7 or Win 8 after Win 10 has been installed - or have I missed it?

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That comes down to how you install on a new hard drive. I.e a new computer, or you purchased a new hdd and you have nothing to begin with

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Windows 10 fixes the controller dropout issue.  nuff said. :)

 

jja

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I'll not be in a position to test out the muddy waters of upgrading since I'll be installing RTM as soon as available on my MSDN ... BUT, I think it would be worth getting clarification from someone going the free upgrade route to provide their experience with "clean install" vs. "clean re-install".

 

That latest build I have is 5/18/2015 10074 for Windows 10 Enterprise ... VHD (7.3GB) ... BTW, I only use 10 Pro, and 10 Enterprise from my MSDN account.  The ISO is 3.5 - 3.6 GB for enterprise and pro.  

 

I don't know much about Home/10 since I've only worked with Pro/10 and Enterprise/10. 

 

Cheers, Rob.

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So, Microsoft will not be allowing Windows 7 users access to DX12? Quelle surprise. They want us all to ditch Windows 7 ASAP. Well, guess what? This Windows 7 user will not be upgrading any time soon.

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That is not uncommon, and always you'll find a lot of software houses do that. New features in a new version. Just business

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So, Microsoft will not be allowing Windows 7 users access to DX12? Quelle surprise. They want us all to ditch Windows 7 ASAP. Well, guess what? This Windows 7 user will not be upgrading any time soon.

 

In a lot of cases new DirectX versions imply changes to the kernel.

 

Cheers!

 

Luke

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I didn't actually say for Windows 10 but I can see how you might have interpreted it as that ... Windows 10 will be the last non-subscription OS from Microsoft, Windows 11 (or whatever Microsoft decide to call it) will be subscription based.  Just have to wait and see if they do.

 

Windows 10 Pro is $199 or if you get Windows 10 home (for free 1st year, $119 after that) the upgrade is $99.

 

What I think folks NEED to understand for the Windows 10 Home "free upgrade" is that it's an upgrade, it's NOT a full install on a new PC.  If you're planning to build a new PC and want to install Windows 10 (any version) then that is going to cost you either $119 or $199.  Your free Win10 upgrade isn't going to work unless it finds a Win7 or Win8 already installed.

 

Personally I'd never run an OS "upgrade" on any of my PCs because of legacy issues, driver issues, etc. etc. -- I would always go the "new install" route. 

 

Cheers, Rob.

Rob, looks like your wish was their command.

 

A new line was added to their FAQ about W10: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-10-faq

 

 

 

Can I reinstall Windows 10 on my computer after upgrading?

Yes. Once you’ve upgraded to Windows 10 using the free upgrade offer, you will be able to reinstall, including a clean install, on the same device. You won’t need to purchase Windows 10 or go back to your prior version of Windows and upgrade again.

You’ll also be able to create your own installation media like a USB drive or DVD, and use that to upgrade your device or reinstall after you’ve upgraded.

From what I understand, MS will make some sort of ISO available so that you can upgrade your computer's components at free will without worrying about buying Windows again.

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Rob, looks like your wish was their command.

 

It was not my wish, it does make business sense, and it's "careful" wording used by Microsoft.  Windows 10 will be free, but will be bound to the PC you upgrade to so don't expect to be able to use it to do a clean install on another PC.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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but will be bound to the PC you upgrade to so don't expect to be able to use it to do a clean install on another PC.

Umm, read the line again.

 

 

 

You’ll also be able to create your own installation media like a USB drive or DVD, and use that to upgrade your device or reinstall after you’ve upgraded.

I understand this like this: "You can also create your own ISO and mount it on a DVD, and use that in case you upgrade your computer ("device") or if you decide to reinstall after you have upgraded.

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reinstall after you have upgraded.

 

Ok, read the line again and it didn't read any different than the first time ... was it supposed to?

 

1.  You upgrade Win7 or Win8 with the free Win10 upgrade

2.  You are now on Win10

3.  You use Win10 to build an ISO that will allow you to reinstall on the same device

4.  You can do a clean Win10 on the same device

 

You can't NOT take that ISO and install on another different device/computer.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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You can't NOT take that ISO and install on another different device/computer.

 

 

No.

 

It's more like this: 

 

1.  You upgrade Win7 or Win8 with the free Win10 upgrade

2.  You are now on Win10

3.  You use Win10 to build an ISO that will allow you to reinstall on the same device

4.  You can do a clean Win10 on the same device

5. You can do a clean install on another device.

 

They say: 

 

 

and use that to upgrade your device

I'm assuming my thoughts are correct that you will be able to upgrade your computer without loosing the license. I assume the W7/W8 serial key is converted into a W10 one.

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Looks like #5 is where we disagree.  If #5 were correct then why not just provide an unrestricted ISO initially and not go thru the requirement to install Win10 upgrade and then make an "open" ISO?

 

Most likely the ISO created after upgrading to Win10 will be keyed to the device, hence why the ISO is built POST Win10 upgrade.  The device keys will probably be similar to existing keying (EFI BIOS info, chipset info, motherboard info, CPU info, and maybe disk info).

 

Cheers, Rob.

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5. You can do a clean install on another device.

 

But what Microsoft says is

You’ll also be able to create your own installation media like a USB drive or DVD, and use that to upgrade your device or reinstall after you’ve upgraded.

There is a difference between "another device" and "your device". Microsoft uses the term "your device" used elsewhere.

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Don't see many reasons why I would upgrade. Perhaps there would be a game or simulator down the road that requires DX12, but until that happens I'll be set in my ways with W7.

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But what Microsoft says is

There is a difference between "another device" and "your device". Microsoft uses the term "your device" used elsewhere.

 

When they say "upgrade your device" that implies that you are getting a NEW device, therefore, the free upgrade follows you, no matter what device you have.

 

Looks like #5 is where we disagree.  If #5 were correct then why not just provide an unrestricted ISO initially and not go thru the requirement to install Win10 upgrade and then make an "open" ISO?

 

Most likely the ISO created after upgrading to Win10 will be keyed to the device, hence why the ISO is built POST Win10 upgrade.  The device keys will probably be similar to existing keying (EFI BIOS info, chipset info, motherboard info, CPU info, and maybe disk info).

 

Cheers, Rob.

Well I don't know. They could just force you to upgrade first, then let you have the option to do an upgrade on any system.

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Some of you should just wait until MS actually figures out the details to all of this, instead of all this guessing.

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Some of you should just wait until MS actually figures out the details to all of this, instead of all this guessing.

 

Is Microsoft likely to change itslong-standing policy specially for Windows 10 and permit it to be installed on multiple computers?

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Is Microsoft likely to change itslong-standing policy specially for Windows 10 and permit it to be installed on multiple computers?

 

I don't think anyone here expects the ability to install on multiple machines. The question is: will you be able to install the system on a new computer when you replace your old one? In other words, the issue is whether the new upgrade license follows the "boxed version" model (i.e. install on any machine as long as it's the only machine on which this serial no. is used), or the OEM model (license only valid with the hardware on which the system was originally installed).

 

Tym

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I don't think anyone here expects the ability to install on multiple machines

 

Someone does:

 

4. You can do a clean Win10 on the same device

 

5. You can do a clean install on another device.

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Well, a new computer that replaces your old one is "another device", isn't it?

 

Tym

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